Wolf Class Starship - original/fan design

[Jayru]

Plowing on with the details - pretty sure I have locked down a reasonable idea for the bridge;



Although I'm open to ideas about where the breifing room/ready room should go...


Sorted out the Impulse Engins;



These sit much better on the ship, and are in keeping with my rough ideas for the changes on the design. Size wise, they look a bit small, but when you consider how big the ones on the Intrepid are, do they have to be big mega things?

C&C welcome, as always...

Off to play with the nacelle design...


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[Jayru]

Well here's a first go at new nacelles, and pylons. I know I need to sort out some of the curves on it, but this was something I played around with that seems to work (well, IMOO - regardless they are better then the crappy blocky ones I built on the game version of the mesh). I need to spend some time working on the detailing on them... obviously. People with a passing knowledge of my Ingram WIP will know I like to build the detail in

Ok, yes, I know. Curved/angled nacelles are a no-no. Not seen in Trek, and not really the done thing. The question, of course, is why. Personally, given that this is fiction, why not. I am sure I have something somewhere in all my notes on the Wolf and the Horizon on why the ships had angled nacelles... I'll dig it out if anyones interested...

I know I am spending a lot of time on small details, but there are things I want to get done before I start mapping out and building in the shield grid and major hull details. I'm not working from blue-prints on this one, so I am being careful about what I do, LOL


Although this WIP is still at a very early stage, I thought I would knock up some quick orthos;

Nacelles in there sub-light position;


Nacelles in there ftl position;


C&C welcome, more as and when...


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[traq]

love it, especially the underside detailing. two things (two cents):

1) the bubble bay on top doesn't work for me. have you considered simple landing pad/elevators?
EDIT my mistake, that's the other deflector bay. have you considered just getting rid of it?/edit

2) the ship seems too large for it's lines. I would suggest trying it at 66-75% of it's current scale (but don't shrink the nacelles down as much as everything else).

[Jayru]

Originally Posted by traq

love it, especially the underside detailing.

I can be very anal when it comes to detailing work... this mesh is going to benefit/suffer from it, LOL.

1) the bubble bay on top doesn't work for me. have you considered simple landing pad/elevators?

The upper and lower bays originally housed the navigational deflectors. The lower bay is certainly going to house a deflector of sorts (and sadly be completly redesigned as well). Not sure what I am going to do about the upper bay. My original plans for the Wolf & Horizon show the bays as being more angular, so I was playing around with ideas by making them curvy. Not sure either of them work for me... something I plan to play with... The shuttle bay is (or will be) in the aft hull cutaway.

2) the ship seems too large for it's lines. I would suggest trying it at 66-75% of it's current scale (but don't shrink the nacelles down as much as everything else).

I played around with the scale - even though I had that worked out years ago... Didn't work for me, or fit right. I'm not just building the outside of this ship, but the inside as well - or parts of it at least. Scaling it down impacts too much on the insides... Also, I think until the hull details start to take shape it's going to be hard to get a handle on the scale of it. The decks I have built into the mesh, fit well, and sit right with the edge of the hull, the shuttle bay, and the bridge. The nacelles were too small on the original plans and the Mk1 mesh - the new ones are taller by about 25% But then it's best to consider them as being on there sides...

The Wolf Class is best considered to be an alternative to the Intrepid. The notes I have suggest a history that has both ships being developed at the same time, and sharing design features and ideas.

[bbelt]

The ship looks good, but here is my little nit-pick. One of Rodenberry's rules for starship design is that at least 80% of the buzzard collectors need to be seen from the front of the ship. The purpose of this is so they can do there job in collecting stray hydrogen particles in space. If they are blocked completely, it wouldn't be effecient for the job.

I know that the Dauntless had it's nacelles tucked under, but this ship had transwarp drive and probably not warp at all, so the nacelles may have been there to add to the apperance. Plus the ship was an alien ship to begin with.

Maybe if you design it to where the nacelles move down in an angle when going to warp?

[Jayru]

Originally Posted by bbelt

The ship looks good, but here is my little nit-pick. One of Rodenberry's rules for starship design is that at least 80% of the buzzard collectors need to be seen from the front of the ship. The purpose of this is so they can do there job in collecting stray hydrogen particles in space. If they are blocked completely, it wouldn't be effecient for the job.

I know that the Dauntless had it's nacelles tucked under, but this ship had transwarp drive and probably not warp at all, so the nacelles may have been there to add to the apperance. Plus the ship was an alien ship to begin with.

Maybe if you design it to where the nacelles move down in an angle when going to warp?

LOL, I was hoping no one would notice...

I believe the accepted design rules (that Gene came up with?) are;

1. Warp nacelles must be in pairs.
   

   Various ships that violate this are;
   The Niagara Class starship, seen as wreckage in "The Best of Both Worlds" has three warp nacelles.
   The Freedom Class starship, seen as wreckage in "The Best of Both Worlds" very clearly has a single warp nacelle.
   The Klingon BOP - it is generally accept that the ship has only a single "warp unit"/nacelle.
   The 3 nacelled "All Good Things..." Ent-D.

2. Warp nacelles must have at least 50% line of sight of each other across the hull.
   

   Various ships that violate this are;
   The Nebula and Oberth Class nacelles are obstructed by the rest of the ships structure.
   The Defiant Class - The entire ship is in-between the nacelles.
   The Danube Class Runabouts, and most shuttle craft.

3. Both warp nacelles must be fully visible from the front.
   

   Various ships that violate this are;
   The Intrepid Class's nacelles are largely obscured from the front when in there ftl position (and hence the bussard collectors are obscured as well).
   The bussard collectors on the Ambassador Class are obscured from the front by about 50%(?).

4. The bridge must be located at the top center of the primary hull.
   

   This is a design preference, and has been violated by many ship designs.

Adressing your concern about the bussard Collectors on this ship;
I re-designed the lower hull, so that when the nacelles are deployed out - the bussard collectors will have clear line of sight. This is one of the things I messed up on the original plans, and very obviously messed up on the crappy Mk1 mesh that I did, and wanted to correct for this version. I think when I start adding the detail into the nacelles it will become clearer how it will work

[Jayru]

More updates on the nacelles;



Pretty sure I have locked down the detail on them - in other words I'm "happy" with it for the time being, LOL. I'll get some work done on the pylons next...

Some shots with the rest of the ship;





Going back to the point made by bbelt (which was a good one and I wouldn't want anyone to ever think I don't listen to people on here) - fore-shot with the nacelles deployed, showing that lower part of the bussard collectors has clear line of sight;



This gives them 50% clearence at the moment, as the upper part is obscured by the rest of the ships. The three options I can see are;

1. Change the way the nacelles deploy out, so they deploy out and down to give full clearence.
2. Change the detailing on the top of the nacelles and eleminate the bussard bits from them, leaving them only on the bottom of the nacelles. This would give full clearence.
3. Not worry about it.

C&C welcome, as always. More as and when.


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[bbelt]

Hey, do what makes you happy. I was just nitpicking on a techno-detail because there are some people around here who does it. They did it to me big time with my J model. It's your model and there are some of us who would love to see you interupted vision of the ship.

As they say, you can please everyone part of the time, or you can please some of the people all of the time. But you can't please everyone all of the time.

[Jayru]

Originally Posted by bbelt

Hey, do what makes you happy. I was just nitpicking on a techno-detail because there are some people around here who does it. They did it to me big time with my J model. It's your model and there are some of us who would love to see you interupted vision of the ship.

As they say, you can please everyone part of the time, or you can please some of the people all of the time. But you can't please everyone all of the time.

Hey, nickpic away Constructive comments - hell, even critisim, all help at the end of the day. When I started the Ingram thread, what seems a life time ago, I had to learn between balancing what everyone else wanted, and what I was trying to achieve. That was easier becasue the Ingram is based off someone elses plans, and I could refer people to them. Doing your own thing, that's harder to justify

The Wolf is my baby, and one that I designed over ten years (possibly longer given what my ex has said about this thread). Building a proper mesh for it is long overdue on my part, and in some respects owed.

I have a clear, very clear, vision of what this ship is, and what I am trying to achieve. That being said, I am a tinkerer when it comes to stuff like this, and not adverse to changing things, and changing them again. And again...

This mesh is going to change, and the design is going to evolve over the proccess of doing so. It already has. This is the "Wolf Class Mk2" after all. The reason to go public with it is to throw ideas out there, and see what (if any) feedback is given.

Your point was valid, and one I had thought about myself. It's something I need to think about. I am aware of the "4 Golden Rules" for Trek ship design. I'm also aware that they (the people working on the show) don't always stick to them either. Hell, with this ship I've broken 3 out of 4 of them...

I am a practical person, and I like the things I design to have a function that can work. The Bussard Collectors are there for a reason, not just to make the nacelle look good so I need to examin the nacelles, and find a solution. As I said in my prior post, three come to mind.

As for your Ent-J and Ent-G models - I rather like them. Given how little there was to go on the "J" and the "G" you have done a fantastic job. They called to you, and you took up the challenge to make them. Kudos to you.

Yes, there are some people around here who nitpick on techno-detail. I'm enough of a geek that I can do it myself if need be. But I have to remind myself: Star Trek is fiction, not fact. Elements may be grounded in what we understand of science now - but who's to say what we will know and understand by the 24th Century, or beyond?

And don't you get board with seeing meshes based off the same old ideas? I kind of do. Ok, yes, I know we all have to start somewhere but... I welcome anything that's new and different, that dares to stand out and stand tall. I welcome curved nacelles, single hull designs, organic shapes. I'm not talking about the downright silly, but new ideas, and new takes on things. After all, without exploration of ideas, without inovation, there is no progress. And that's bad for all of us.

[Starship]

First, welcome back Jayru!
It's a nice lil' ship. My niptick is abot the naceles size. Maybe they could be a little longer.