R2-D2 (Artoo Detoo)

[mverta]

http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/R2_Low_Angle_1.jpg

This is a slightly modified version of the R2 I did for the Star Wars Complete Visual Dictionary.

_Mike

[BAKMS]

SWEET !!
Excellent work

[nhall]

Hey, dammit, no posting pictures! :devil:

But in all seriousness, seeing this, I shat a squirrel. NICE!!! :thumb:

Cheers,
Nick

[al3d]

ah..yes the nice artoo..BUT...does it fly..;)

[mverta]

ah..yes the nice artoo..BUT...does it fly..;)

**** no. What a stupid idea.

:D

_Mike

[Rodavan]

Excelent render :thumb:

[nico-r44]

Just want to tell you again Mike, it's a master piece, and of course five stars from me*****

[Bug 2000]

Awesome render, as always.

Take care, mate.

[biotech]

Thats just freaking sweet.

Are you sure its not just a photo of the prop? :)

[DarkSapiens]

The CG R2 that appears in the films is much less realistic than this.

Impressive work. *****

:thumb:

[B.J.]

Niiiiiice! You said "slightly modified" - any changes we might notice?

[Bug 2000]

Hey Mike,

Please post some more renders of this beautiful baby. :D

Take care, mate. :thumb:

[mverta]

I will, there are just a few more things I want to do.. a couple more scratches and dust here and there... I've gotten a hold of the ior data for the dichroic plastic lens, so I'll be putting that in... you know, WIP stuff :devil:

_Mike

[Jedilaw]

A thing of beauty indeed, Mike!

I find it interesting that Lucasfilm commisioned you to create another R2-D2 model, rather than using the one ILM created for the prequels (or just taking an actual photograph of one of the R2s from the OT).

Did LFL specifically ask you to create this one, or did they see it online and ask you to create some shots for the Visual Dictionary?

[darthviper107]

Is that the one you were working on with Maxwell?

[mverta]

Lucasfilm saw the previous version I had online, hired me on that basis, and were happy to use that one, but I asked to be allowed to improve it; they agreed. So I went to the archives at the Ranch and spent a couple of days taking reference photos, measurements, etc. In addition to the external body, I also did a number of internal components, arms, lenses, etc.

The man I worked with, Don Bies (ILM modelmaker, R2 wrangler and former custodian of the archives) actually had my old R2 as his desktop wallpaper for about a year before we even met - so it just goes to show you, you never know who's watching :D

And yes, it was rendered in Maxwell. It was rendered at 6k resolution in 8 hours.

_Mike

[homerpalooza67]

Bleep Bloop?
-R2D2
Really great!!!

[Freak]

wow, that is nice!

[mverta]

Niiiiiice! You said "slightly modified" - any changes we might notice?

If you have the Visual Dictionary around you'll see tons... well, depending on how anal you are. Like with every other job, the great lament is time... we had a TON of work to do in an extremely short time - it was 20 hour days right from day 1. I'm happy with the work, but there's always room for improvement, so that's what I'm doing now :D

_Mike

[darthviper107]

Heh, lucky you. Makes me eager to see the 1:1 scale R2-D2 and C-3PO that Sideshow Collectibles is making. Can never get enough of our favorite little robot.

[DarthMaya]

Holy crap, thats fantastic. When I grow up I want to be able to do that.... :p

[SCIFI 3D zoo]

Beautiful render and materials.

That's crazy Bies had your pic. I guess he's a fan/admirer of CGI. You didn't ask how he saw your pic did you? It's always interesting to know that people in the industry are lurking around, here, SF3D, TFN, etc.

[mverta]

Yeah, a couple of other people I bumped into during the project did, too... I'm sure I asked where he got it; I just don't remember what he said... I think it was somehow related to TheForce.net, where the Halloween desktop image was talked about, and that quickly spread to StarWars.com, etc... I'm not sure. But it's always been my professional experience that the path to getting work is more random and indirect than you could ever imagine. So I've always focused on just doing the best work I can and letting the universe handle the rest...

_Mike

[Glazy]

I'll be really impressed if you also modelled Kenny Baker for inside it ! :)

Superb work !

[biotech]

I think I could just about model the restraining bolt.

[REL777]

Holy testicle tuesday! It looks real man.

[Jedilaw]

Man, a trip into the archives to take measurements.

What's next, Mike the 8' ISD II model, or the 5' Millenium Falcon? If you have access, use it!

[Chanur]

wxcellent work man :thumb:

[DarthMaya]

Ok next time you decide to go and model something completely mindblowing!.......Can you record it? :D

[mverta]

We unpacked 3 R2's from their crates (including that famous crate with the travel dates on it, the one from the original Tunisia shoot) and were going to take photos of them, right there in the main archive room, with everything from Star Wars to Raiders to... well, everything, right in the background, but then Don got nervous about that, so we had to wheel them just outside the roll-up door and photograph them there. At the time, I was so utterly in shock from just having put on the original Vader mask that I wasn't going to put up a fight...

Here, just to rub it in:

(If you look closely, the one on my left is the one I took most of the textures from...)

:D

_Mike

[Larsen]

We unpacked 3 R2's from their crates (including that famous crate with the travel dates on it, the one from the original Tunisia shoot) and were going to take photos of them, right there in the main archive room, with everything from Star Wars to Raiders to... well, everything, right in the background, but then Don got nervous about that, so we had to wheel them just outside the roll-up door and photograph them there. At the time, I was so utterly in shock from just having put on the original Vader mask that I wasn't going to put up a fight...

Here, just to rub it in:

(If you look closely, the one on my left is the one I took most of the textures from...)

_Mike

:eek!: Dude... how did you even manage to hold the camera still... I mean I'd have just sat right down and died on the spot:rolleyes: Must have been mindblowing!

SO how did it smell in there... could you feel the force zipping around or something!

I'm sorry! but I'm really really envyous of you:D

Awsome model:thumb:

[Bug 2000]

Great photo!

What a day it must have been for you, especially being able to watch part of the archive of one of the greatest sci-fi movies in world cinema industry.

Take care.

[mverta]

It's an unusual combination of wood (raw-wood-paneled flooring, and wooden/metal storage racks) and this ultra-pure, perfect humidity/temperature controlled sterility. I've never smelled a place quite like that... funny you should ask because it was so distinctive. By the way, while I was stepping backwards away from the full-size Speederbike to get a better look at it from the side, I backed right into the Ark of the Covenant and slid it about six-inches along the floor. My bad. Nobody said anything though... but then again, nobody was saying anything about the used Coke can that somebody had left literally sitting on top of the stack of all the original set blueprints for Star Wars, which were in a pile on a card table. Truly surreal experience.

_Mike

[JeffrySG]

We unpacked 3 R2's from their crates Here, just to rub it in:

jealously building up... envy building up... must hold it back...

but seriously that must have been a very very cool trip, you know, next time you need some assistance to take photos at the ranch, just give me a call! :D

(and oh yeah, the R2 is great too!! ;) )

[Larsen]

Ha I knew it... probably copyrighted the smell too... the little bugger:D

[Glazy]

See no matter how much into CGI any of us are it's the real world stuff that we all go loopy for, the more CG advances on the more the stuff in that archive becomes film history.

[Ozylot]

Fantastic... thats all I have to say... fantastic!

[DarthMaya]

you know, next time you need some assistance to take photos at the ranch, just give me a call! :D

)

Nahh he is going to take me, I am much more important! :lol:

[JDR]

Should really be in the gallery seeing as its a finished render posted here.

[firewolf]

Holy crap, thats fantastic. When I grow up I want to be able to do that.... :p

you and me both, brudda

[scifieric]

Lucasfilm saw the previous version I had online, hired me on that basis, and were happy to use that one, but I asked to be allowed to improve it; they agreed. So I went to the archives at the Ranch and spent a couple of days taking reference photos, measurements, etc. In addition to the external body, I also did a number of internal components, arms, lenses, etc.

The man I worked with, Don Bies (ILM modelmaker, R2 wrangler and former custodian of the archives) actually had my old R2 as his desktop wallpaper for about a year before we even met - so it just goes to show you, you never know who's watching :D

And yes, it was rendered in Maxwell. It was rendered at 6k resolution in 8 hours.

_Mike
Your model: gorgeous!
Your render: unbelievable! (Looks more real than reality!)
Your story: FANtastic! I mean everything from how ILM'ers saw your work and hired you to the trip to the fan-dreams-realized-Ranch!

(The whole thing reminds me of those "priceless" commercials!)

R2 Model on desk: $142.49
Maxwell renderer: $995
Taking a trip to Skywalker Ranch and being paid to model something from your all time favorite movie: Priceless.

[Comco]

Great to see this back here Mike...Excellent work...But then...I expect nothing less from you... :)

Hey, did you ever get any further in your re-mastering of A New Hope? Last I saw you were working on the corridor shoots of Tantive IV...

[homerpalooza67]

U mean Original "New Hope"???? Not the ""Special Edition" New Hope"????

Pleazzzeee post some of it here!!!!?????!!!!?? :help: :help:

[D.M.J.]

Its a classic story:

Guy makes model, model is good. Pros notice and the guy gets to frolic amongst some of the most holy relics known to sci-fi. Fellow forum-users rip the guy limb from limb in an incandescent fit of jealousy.

Yup, its the same old story.

[nico-r44]

Mike I envy you seeing that photo!! cooool

[Bug 2000]

Its a classic story:

Guy makes model, model is good. Pros notice and the guy gets to frolic amongst some of the most holy relics known to sci-fi. Fellow forum-users rip the guy limb from limb in an incandescent fit of jealousy.

Yup, its the same old story.

There is only one little flaw in your perfect history, Mike was already a professional!

And there is good and bad jealousy.:flippy:

Take care.

[nulll]

Awesome work. Great story too :)

[mverta]

ANH is about 85% done... ! :D


_Mike



Great to see this back here Mike...Excellent work...But then...I expect nothing less from you... :)

Hey, did you ever get any further in your re-mastering of A New Hope? Last I saw you were working on the corridor shoots of Tantive IV...

[Wiz]

Damn you and your fantastic work, everytime I think I can call it a day on my R2 you push the bar (which I was nowhere near anyway :P) even higher...

Fantastic work mate! Absolutely awesome, nothing more I can say that hasnt already been said!

Please for the love of God dont continue work on you Tantive IV corridor or I will never get that finished either :P

<Opens up Max, sobs to self and tries harder...>

;)

Wiz.

[mverta]

Please for the love of God dont continue work on you Tantive IV corridor or I will never get that finished either :P -Wiz.

...'fraid I have some bad news... :devil:

_Mike

[ChrisGFX]

:eek!:

extreme awesome!

I downloaded the Blueprints of R2 from R2-Modelers (spell) ... I will use them for my X-Wing-R2 ... but as I always said ... there is no better reference then the original ;)

Greets

Chris :)

[Wiz]

...'fraid I have some bad news... :devil:

_Mike

:o

Hehe.

Wiz.

[Wiz]

LOL, just revisited your website and checking out your (great) work, and noticed Looney Tunes BIA.

I worked at a developer's producing the game for Warner of the film license on the colour GBA, and your account of the processes with WB for feedback and approval brought back many happy (cough) memories...

One of which was the most surreal conversations I have ever had, in which, in depth, we discussed Bugs Bunny's feet size, ratio, etc. etc. that was a fun day....

We must have redesigned the game around a dozen times (during the games development process right up to pretty much the final hour) sounds similar to some of the fun you had ;)

So many fond memories... ;)

Anyway sorry for going (a little) off topic there, I just bought "The Star Wars Complete Visual Dictionary" and WOW!

More renders!!!!! Please!!!!

Wiz.

[mverta]

That wasn't the game from Warner Interactive was it? I did the moving WB shield logo for that game...

_Mike

[Wiz]

That wasn't the game from Warner Interactive was it? I did a moving WB shield logo for that game...

_Mike

OMG!!!!

It's a small world :)

Warner Interactive, if I remember corrently was the newly formed games division of Warner, or part of it (opening with amonst others Martix) and what you did must have been the animated splash screen we were supplied for the boot-up of the game (also used on the Ps2 version which we also did) :)

I have been runnning round the house trying to find my old GBA to check, kids have an amazing knack of hiding things lol.

Just remembering back as well I think your trailer may have been one of the first (if not the very first) we were supplied by Warner :)

:)

Wiz.

[mverta]

Yeah, if I remember, it was a gold WB shield, where I replaced Warner Bros. Pictures with Warner Interactive and then flew the camera into the shield between the W and the B as it was twisting. I think that's the same opening I did for the trailer, come to think of it. I dunno... long time ago, and I did about a billion projects for WB...

_Mike

[DarthMaya]

I love it when the pros come here, it makes me feel much closer to (enter movie /game studio here). :D

O btw I watched your animation with r2 on your site a while back, and my jaw was on the floor the whole time!

[liljon]

Yipes, just yipes. What is the rendering time for that thing. Do you use a render farm?

[mverta]

I do have a farm, but this shot only took a couple of hours to render. There are some notoriously computationally-intensive things going on with some of the materials, like complex .ior data/dispersion/refraction and a lot of indirect light bouncing in the environment. So far, Maxwell's speed has not been a factor in my production pipeline. In fact, it's been faster than mental ray, with vastly superior results, with setup times being only a mere fraction of what they used to be, as well.

The mental ray renders of R2 I used to do were 7-9 hours for a 1280xX render, and didn't look anywhere near as good, light-propogation/GI-wise, to say nothing of the fact that those materials were not physically accurate by any means. And that was without DOF, which here is physically accurate, and there was certainly no caustics, dispersion, or even the ability to reference complex .ior data for the materials in those renders. Last night I did a full 2k render of R2 that was ready in 6 hours. Eventually, I'll show a side-by-side of the two engines under similar strain... suffice it to say, I haven't actually loaded mental ray in 6 months. However, the paychecks keep coming, I notice... and isn't that the bottom line? :D

_Mike

[Comco]

Eventually, I'll show a side-by-side of the two engines under similar strain...

That would be interesting to see if you ever get the chance, Mike...

Just had a look at your progress on the A New Hope restoration mate...Impressive work...Maybe you can run that one by ILM too...Maybe they'll release that as the Uber Special Edition DVD release. ;)

BTW - I was reading about your troubles confirming the colour of the rebel troopers shirts in the Tantive IV scenes...You didn't happen to stumble across the real things on your recent tour did you? :)

[mverta]

I didn't see those costumes, no... there were a ton of costume things in cabinets along the back wall, but honestly I was too distracted by the props, models and matte paintings; plus about a billion lightsabers and guns just piled up on this one shelf in the back.

_Mike

[mverta]

Since it came up, here is an image sequence showing 1 hour of rendering time on R2.

The image rendering is slightly larger than HD at 1920x1280.

One thing that's cool about Maxwell is the render preview which appears in the lower left corner: this image appeared, finished, after just a couple of seconds, and is usually enough to judge the entire render by for tests. The renderer continually refines the image, pass by pass, converging on a cleaner and cleaner image as it goes. You can stop it manually, whenever you feel the noise level in the image is acceptable, or after a predetermined amount of time has passed or "sampling level" reached. It's up to you.

R2 Rendering (http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/R2_Render.gif)
1.7MB

_Mike

[B.J.]

What blows my mind is that you're able to do this *and* compose music!

[Glazy]

What blows my mind is that you're able to do this *and* compose music!

What at the same time ?

[Freak]

very impressive!

[Jedilaw]

I didn't see those costumes, no... there were a ton of costume things in cabinets along the back wall, but honestly I was too distracted by the props, models and matte paintings; plus about a billion lightsabers and guns just piled up on this one shelf in the back.

_Mike

Were the 8' ISD II and 5' Millenium Falcon there? What about the Executor and the Death Star II?

[Jedilaw]

What blows my mind is that you're able to do this *and* compose music!

He also juggles flaming batons in his spare time...

[mverta]

To be honest, I compose music and do this... visual effects was just a hobby that accidentally became a second career...


What blows my mind is that you're able to do this *and* compose music!

[mverta]

Were the 8' ISD II and 5' Millenium Falcon there? What about the Executor and the Death Star II?

Death Star II was there, but no Falcon or ISD. A lot of stuff is on tour, but also, there are 3 storage facilities - the main one on the Ranch, and 2 others. We ended up visiting one of the other 2 as well, but it was 90% PT stuff - the entire Tantive set was there in shrinkwrap - but also a few choice OT things, like the original Darth Vader helmet mould, R2's arms, etc..

_Mike

[Bug 2000]

Death Star II was there, but no Falcon or ISD. A lot of stuff is on tour, but also, there are 3 storage facilities - the main one on the Ranch, and 2 others. We ended up visiting one of the other 2 as well, but it was 90% PT stuff - the entire Tantive set was there in shrinkwrap - but also a few choice OT things, like the original Darth Vader helmet mould, R2's arms, etc..

_Mike

Hey Mike,

Yes, they are on tour, here (http://www.exposicaostarwars.com/) in Portugal, at Lisboa (Lisbon) until 14 January.

I didn’t go there yet, but I am planning to. :cool:

Take care, mate.

[mverta]

Another shot.


Getting there...


http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/R2_Low_Angle_2.jpg

Still have the middle foot to do, so I can do 3-leg renders, plus a number of other painting refinements.

_Mike

[Andrew March]

Excellent work Mike, by the way have you got any new music that you can allow us to listen to :)

[ChrisGFX]

wow ... great work :)

Greets

Chris

[mverta]

http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/R2_New_10.jpg

_Mike

[ChrisGFX]

man ... thats a great render :) He is looking so real ... uhmmmm ... he is real ... its a photo, huh? ;)

Great work :

Greets

Chris :)

[mverta]

At this stage, I move the camera around a lot and do tests under a lot of different lights looking for weak spots...

_Mike

[Choo1701]

thats totally sweet. great render.

How long did it take too render?

(BTW: you can let Kenny Baker out of the suit now :p )

[Dallidas]

holy hell this is awesome! why this hasnt been headered i cant say...

[mverta]

This render was a couple of hours, I think... I left to get some lunch and let it run, so I don't know exactly when it was "post-ready"...

_Mike

[Doble]

Jeez man, where are the nacelles? :P
Looking fantastic, can't wait to see it finished.

- Doble

[mverta]

Jeez man, where are the nacelles? :P
- Doblehttp://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/R2_Nacelles.jpg

:cool:

_Mike

[nhall]

OMG. That's hi-larious. :lol: :lol:

Anyways, HEADER THIS IMMEDIATELY, Mods!!! The power of nhall compels you!
:devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

Cheers,
Nick

[Nebula]

ROFLMAO man that just made my day :D

[Doble]

lmao, I think I just got owned :flippy:

[B.J.]

:lol:
Nice bit of texturing there! Is it set up so you can change the colors easily (for Artoo's siblings) or is it "R2-D2 only"?

[chrono]

"Murder Class 2: R2 Rising"

[mverta]

:lol:
Nice bit of texturing there! Is it set up so you can change the colors easily (for Artoo's siblings) or is it "R2-D2 only"?

Actually I spent about 3 minutes on this... loaded the nacelles, dragged a texture from R2's body on to it, plus some blue from his booster covers and some black from his holoeye and hit Render. I didn't even UV it :)

But generally speaking, R2's maps are very specific...

_Mike

[Choo1701]

ILM's first idea for Episode 2 perhaps? :p

hi-larious. Nice one :D :lol:

[ChrisGFX]

funny LOL :lol:

Greets

Chris :)

[DarthMaya]

HAHAHA! Thats funny!

[Dallidas]

:lol: you better hope the killer fan boys dont see this...

[Choo1701]

would they flip it i suggested adding a sonic screwdriver? :devil:

[Freak]

:lol: that pretty funny. I say add the sonic screwdriver!

[al3d]

LOL...now R2 can realy fly..:)

[ChrisGFX]

LOL...now R2 can realy fly..:)

yep ... with warp 9 :lol:

Greets

Chris :)

[homerpalooza67]

Does he have a cloak? :lol: lmaoo- you've totally made my day!! :D

[Tovette]

That's a great render of R2. And the nacelles are hillarious. :p How long was your render?

[Wiz]

Holy crap on a stick, u do realise now that anyone out there who is modelling R2 stands no chance of following this...

I hope you are thoroughly ashamed of youself... ;)

Great renders matey, the detail you are going down to on this fella is awe inspiring, really is cool.

Anymore R2 movies/anim tests planned?

:)

Wiz.

[mverta]

Holy crap on a stick, u do realise now that anyone out there who is modelling R2 stands no chance of following this... Wiz.

Actually, my hope is that someone comes along who puts mine to shame, and then I have to go and try and beat them. That's how this all started; I saw Billy Brooks' CG R2 in Ep. 1 and I couldn't believe how good it was, so I set out to beat it. Once you see what someone is capable of -especially if it exceeds what you believed was possible- you have a clear goal to meet or exceed. And in the end, you get better for trying.

And as it is right now, I still have a ton of things I want to do/am doing to R2. Things I put in my column of "Now if you really wanted to do this right, how far would you go?"


_Mike

[DarthMaya]

How can you add to that???? Textures that are physically accurate through a microscope?:D


Nick

[mverta]

Well, the next level would be things like actual surface displacement for all the nicks, dirt clumps, etc. Plus I could manually tweak all the surface geometry even more for more randomness, and variety of the fillets. Even the renders themselves could go to another level by adding optical distortion and glare/artifcats, both of which I could do now, just didn't. It's not that the list is long, it's that its the really specific stuff, where I believe the last 5% of photoreal exists.

_Mike

[DarthMaya]

.......

edit---That was not making fun of you, I am just amazed at how much detail you put into it.
:D


Nick

[mverta]

One thing I've learned is that the eye sees incredibly minute detail, even in a render, even at a distance. Our B.S. detectors are insanely accurate, with access to a lifetime's worth of comparative imagery stored up in the brain. The difference between my latest R2 renders and identical renders without all the surface panels bent and misplaced and asymmetrical is almost too significant to believe. But it makes all the difference. There isn't one piece of precision anything on R2. I pulled everything out of place, rotated, misaligned, bent, etc. It's truly a huge part of the process; taking out all the things our precision computers put in by default; precision that doesn't exist in the real world. And there's certainly a whole level or two (or ten) beyond what I've done that it could use.

_Mike

[DarthMaya]

Thats cool, I will keep that in mind when I model stuff.

Nick

[mverta]

http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/R2_New_12.jpg

Artoo gets his 3rd leg...

_Mike

[ChrisGFX]

wow ... amazing work

looks very real

Greets

Chris :)

[aszazeroth]

Very nice... remember this one. The fact that you "displaced" some of the panel faces -really- increases the realism atleast hundred fold... Very nice shaders too. Guess the node tree for those are filled with funky operators =)

[mverta]

The shader "trees" are about as basic as it gets, actually. Another advantage to Maxwell is its simplicity - these materials are only a fraction of the complexity of their mental ray counterparts, needing only a few controls.

_Mike

[Wiz]

Actually, my hope is that someone comes along who puts mine to shame, and then I have to go and try and beat them. That's how this all started; I saw Billy Brooks' CG R2 in Ep. 1 and I couldn't believe how good it was, so I set out to beat it. Once you see what someone is capable of -especially if it exceeds what you believed was possible- you have a clear goal to meet or exceed. And in the end, you get better for trying.

And as it is right now, I still have a ton of things I want to do/am doing to R2. Things I put in my column of "Now if you really wanted to do this right, how far would you go?"


_Mike

Yeah know what you mean, your work has pushed me to keep improving and learning (albeit at an extremely slow pace), seeing what you have achieved and continuing to achieve keeps me striving to improve my own work and hopefully get better :)

Anyway back to Max and on I go!

:)

Wiz.

[aszazeroth]

The shader "trees" are about as basic as it gets, actually.

Sounds like a good reason to give the ol' Maxwell a try then... :) Better put in a request form Monday ....

[DarthMaya]

That looks fantastic mike. Soooooooooo you gonna make 3po next??? :D

[mverta]

The thought of that gives me an enormous headache. I don't think I can deal with that just yet. :) Months of reference collecting aloneOhGOD... that's so depressing.

So, maybe one day, yeah.


_Mike

[DarthMaya]

LOL O.k cool theres a possibility. :D

[Dr. Jones]

nice photo.
This blue metal looks just perfect

[DarthMaya]

Congrats on the header!

[JeffrySG]

latest updates look amazing, Mike (of course) ;)

and Congrats on the Header!

--Jeff

[Spry]

Awesome work Congrats on the Header.

So you're using the Maxwell Renderer? Some of the stuff that that spits out is mighty impressive and I must say your R2 is no different :)

[scifieric]

Nice addition of the third leg and congratulations on the header. Well deserved for this hyper-realistic model!

[Bug 2000]

What a great comeback Mike, and a very well deserved header.

Take care, mate.

P.S.: Now as Nick (aka DarthMaya) said, all R2-D2 needs is his friend C3-PO. :D

[DarthMaya]

What a great comeback Mike, and a very well deserved header.

Take care, mate.

P.S.: Now as Nick (aka DarthMaya) said, all R2-D2 needs is his friend C3-PO. :D

Sorry mike I think I started something......:D



Nick

[Prime_8]

some one need to interpret all those chirps and beeps

[ChrisGFX]

a well deserved header ... congrates :)

Greets

Chris :)

[AldrikG]

This is SO amazing. I can't believe I'm not looking at press-release photos. HUGE congrats not only on the INSANELY cool R2-D2, but on the header as well.

It is very daunting to see someone that has this much 3D mesh ability as well as your UBER texturing skills.

You ROCK!

AG

[Glazy]

I'd love to see you do a mesh of one of the best Robot designs ever.

[homerpalooza67]

Awesome work!!! :eek: I can't imagine the real thing looking this realistic...but
as i recall, the beginning of ep3 was supposed to have r2d2 and 3po looking perfectly brand new, b4 all of the *stuff* happened... how would you render a "perfect r2d2" that doesn't look bs?

[SHEjK]

Man this one excellent job u did! Really nice looking R3-D2. Nice work!

[SCIFI 3D zoo]

I tried emailing you Mike about WIP's at SF3D. I wanted to get more pics on your hanger and tantive hallway.

[mverta]

There are no more pics of my hangar or hallway at this time... weird about the email, though...


_Mike

[mverta]

http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/SideBySide_1.jpg

_Mike

[Dallidas]

holy hell...

[Kgoku28]

Amazing job mverta, your R2-D2 is really :cool:.

[IRML]

it looks like the reflections on the blue material need to tint blue a little more, otherwise your environment isn't a perfect match, but other than that they really are almost identical

[Shadowman99]

I've had your R2 in my random select wallpaper directory since forever ago. I didn't think you could improve on what you had before. Awesome work.

It's funny how even after seeing R2-D2 for nearly 30 years something like this comes along and I'm calling my wife over to look at the computer screen "This is so f****** cool!!! You gotta see this!"

You must build the Millenium Falcon. Seriously.

[Dallidas]

I've had your R2 in my random select wallpaper directory since forever ago. I didn't think you could improve on what you had before. Awesome work.

It's funny how even after seeing R2-D2 for nearly 30 years something like this comes along and I'm calling my wife over to look at the computer screen "This is so f****** cool!!! You gotta see this!"

You must build the Millenium Falcon. Seriously.

then he would be challenging Al's kingdom over that model.:D

[Shadowman99]

then he would be challenging Al's kingdom over that model.:D

I know. Al3d sets a very high bar. Not to slight his work in any way.

Anyhow, the R2 is so outstanding is makes me wonder what we'll see next.

[mverta]

The next thing up will be the Tantive IV corridor, a model I built awhile ago and just pulled out of mothballs. I've pretty much lost interest in doing it for some reason, but all it needs is some minor modeling work and texturing, so why not?

_Mike

[biotech]

I'd love to see you do a mesh of one of the best Robot designs ever.

I always wanted to make the silent running robots, my computer died the other night though so I dont know when I'll make 3D again.

[Wiz]

The next thing up will be the Tantive IV corridor, a model I built awhile ago and just pulled out of mothballs. I've pretty much lost interest in doing it for some reason, but all it needs is some minor modeling work and texturing, so why not?

_Mike

I'll tell you why not, why not is because I will now, probably, never finish my R2, please don't put me through the same agony with the Tantive corridor lol

;)

Of all the bloody things to choose to model I had to choose them two, and then Zoo had to say "Hey check out Mverta's work..."

Damn you both :P

Seriously though, your work is wow, and helping me to improve my own, with each step you take I am learning more and going down to a level of detail (well trying to anyway) I would never have strifed to achieve if I hadn't seen what was actually possible :)

Mucho gracious, now stop it! hehe

Wiz.

[jay-mo]

Yep, it's amazing. That comparison pic is fantastic. How does maxwell handle sss. I know this is your R2 thread, but have you tried anything like that yet, and do you have any pics?

[mverta]

There is some interesting stuff on SSS on the Maxwell forum, but I personally haven't had much call to use it yet...

_Mike

[homerpalooza67]

Can u please post an R2D2 turorial?? Pleease??? :p :D

[kurv]

Mike, absolutly amazing work, vert cool!! Any chance of some wires posted..?

Thanks!!

[DAve]

You really need to improve the JPEG artifacts in your render.

They look nothing like the original :flippy:

DAve

[Dominus]

Telling you that was awesome, incredible, etc, would just be an understatement. I am in awe.
I gotta go get that vis dictionary.

[Wiz]

Hello again, :)

Can you explain a little about how you approached the texture work, usage of displacements, bumps, sizes etc. etc. would be great to hear more on how you achieved the ultra-realism (plus would be great to pick up some tips from the experts!).

Thanks,

Paul.

[mverta]

In my work I have a couple of (almost hard-and-fast) rules: 1) NO procedurals. 2) NO hand-painting. 3) NO lighting cheats. 4) NO perfection.

It's like this... we're not trying to replicate reality in CG; we're trying to replicate photographed reality. We're not duplicating the way things look to our eyes, but the way they look to cameras. There's a vast and significant difference between the two.

I always use photographs for my textures; photographs of the real world. Even if I want a solid color, I draw from a library of "solid color" photographs I've taken of walls, etc. A flat, painted wall in the real world has a billion subtle variations on it. I don't use procedurals because they always look "mathematical" to me; they don't have a fraction of the randomness and variation that you find in nature. This is also why I don't hand-paint things: I would be fooling myself to believe I could replicate by hand what nature does, to the extent that would be necessary to fool the eye. The basic idea is that if I want to create a "photograph", I source photographs.

By lighting cheats, I mean exactly that... I don't have "invisible" fills or voids, all my lights have quadratic/accurate fall-off... the eye is extremely sensitive to that.

And by no perfection, I mean no perfection. There are no perfect edges, no perfect symmetries, no perfectly flat surfaces, no perfect angles. Everything is slightly misaligned; I usually do that post-modeling stage 1, but not always. Again, if your entire model is precise in a way that no real-world object ever is, you're already handicapping yourself.

And that's pretty much it. All I do is bring as much of the real-world into the project as possible, through randomness, photographic texture sources, realistic lighting, and a photographic approach to the camera. All my models and my scenes are at real-world scale 1:1, and most of my textures are built at 4k or higher. All the little things really add up.

_Mike

[ChrisGFX]

yes ... I saw that imperfection on your X-Wing too. The panels on the Fuselage are sightly different :)

I would like to know how you get that colors on R2? You have a Blue metal color on the R2. Is this 100% a Photo or is it modified (havy modified) in Photoshop?

I'm learning UV Mapping right now and then I will start texturing the X-Wing. I have seen a good Tutorial (over at CGTallk) how to make used metal - simulating it (I Think it was made by Stefan Morrel (Stonemason) )...but I want to make it as you did ... using almost "real" textures.

Do you have some tips in handy? I'm always impressed by your work ... do you use Bumpmaps or Displacementmaps too? Or is it all mesh?

Greets

Chris :)

[mverta]

There is no Photoshop work of any kind - or any post, for that matter - on my R2 renders.

The blue paint replicates the actual ILM automotive paint formula (currently a mix of House of Kolor paints). It is a deep purple basecoat, mixed with silver and gold flecks, coated by a Kandy blue topcoat, and glossy clearcoat. The basecoat is metallic in nature, the flakes are heavily anisotropic for randomness and "sparkle", and the topcoat uses a custom ior profile to duplicate what the real paint does - it falls off into a much darker blue in the "flash" off-angle; only it's a very narrow angle. The actual paint only looks blue dead-on, and then it quickly turns dark.

As for how to make metal textures, it is entirely dependent on your rendering engine. My current approach, for Maxwell, is different than virtually every other engine.

I use bumps and displacements when I "have to", meaning I can't 100% commit until late in the game. Usually then I bake them in (convert to geometry) unless the rendertime hit is too great.


_Mike

[DarthMaya]

It's like this... we're not trying to replicate reality in CG; we're trying to replicate photographed reality.

_Mike

Another fantastic quote from Mike Verta.....
:)

[ChrisGFX]

There is no Photoshop work of any kind - or any post, for that matter - on my R2 renders.


That was not what I meant ... I mean when you start making a texture your "painting" on a UVMap or something simular. You said you are using photos only but you need to composite them in Photoshop. Or do you make all in Maxwell?

Greets

Chris :)

[mverta]

Yes, I export a UV map for each object, and texture in Photoshop on top of the UV map. I stitch photos together, clone, etc...

_Mike

[ChrisGFX]

Yes, I export a UV map for each object, and texture in Photoshop on top of the UV map. I stitch photos together, clone, etc...

_Mike

where do you find your "Star Wars" photos ... do you use photos from the original models or do you just have a huge photo archive and make them look like SW? :)

Sorry for my dumb questions ... I'm a semipro Photographer but I'm an absolutely amateur hobbyist in 3D and 3D Texturing/Mapping ... I'm learing :)

Greets

Chris :)

[mverta]

Well in this case, most of R2's textures came from photos of R2 himself. Ordinarily, I use any of several terrabytes of photos for my textures.. just tons of stuff, doors, airplane wreckage, rusty pipes, a huge variety. If there's an art to texturing, it comes from being able to see things like the bottom of last night's dinner pan as the source for, say, concentric anisotropic rings on a bearing.

_Mike

[ChrisGFX]

Thank you very much for your explainations ... very helpfull for me :)

Greets

Chris :)

[JeffrySG]

http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/SideBySide_1.jpg

_Mike

This post / image more than any of the others really shows how great a model/render your R2 really is! This has been a very cool thread to follow for all the little stories about the ranch and all the great tips as well! :thumb:
So, thanks again for sharing it all with use here!

ps. your entry at the CGSphere is very a very good use of your R2 as well. ;)

--Jeff

[Dr. Jones]

And by no perfection, I mean no perfection. There are no perfect edges, no perfect symmetries, no perfectly flat surfaces, no perfect angles. Everything is slightly misaligned; I usually do that post-modeling stage 1, but not always. Again, if your entire model is precise in a way that no real-world object ever is, you're already handicapping yourself.

That's very interesting... I'll think about it

I just have one question: on your comparaison picture, the "arms" (I mean the two blue things on front of the body, not the legs) look a bit different from the real R2. Yours seem to have sharper edges, where they make an angle inside. How come? how could you miss that? (or maybe the R2 you used as reference was different)

[mverta]

Yes, the R2 I used had different arms. No two R2s are alike, with tons of frustrating differences if you're looking for the "definitive" set of measurements: there is none. They're all pretty close, but... Lucasfilm's only stipulation, once it was agreed that I was going to re-do my R2, was that everything on him must be identical to some R2, somewhere in the archives. I had access to the blueprints, 3 originals, and a set of digital calipers, so it wasn't that difficult.


_Mike



That's very interesting... I'll think about it

I just have one question: on your comparaison picture, the "arms" (I mean the two blue things on front of the body, not the legs) look a bit different from the real R2. Yours seem to have sharper edges, where they make an angle inside. How come? how could you miss that? (or maybe the R2 you used as reference was different)

[Craiglet]

Mike... awesome work and very interesting stories and philosophies too. Thanks for the inspiration. I'm glad your talents are being rewarded. Your attention to detail is fanatical -- I love it! Keep up the mindblowing work.

[mverta]

Excellent work Mike, by the way have you got any new music that you can allow us to listen to :)
Most of my music is owned by studios and networks, and I don't get much access to it outside of snippets for my reels, but here's the score I composed for the Star Wars parody fanfilm Return of Pink Five - which makes it sssooorrrrtttta on-topic for this thread, I guess. It's both tongue-in-cheek and legit... and it was fun.


Main Titles and Stacy and DD Hit it Off (http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/ROP5_Vol2_1m1.mp3)
A Jedi's Burden and The Space Battle (http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/ROP5_Vol2_1m2.mp3)
Furry Friends and The Forest Battle (http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/ROP5_Vol2_1m3.mp3)
Yoda's Big Idea and End Credits (http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/ROP5_Vol2_1m4.mp3)

All tracks (C) 2006 Mike Verta / Tudor-Ford Music (BMI)

_Mike

[DarthMaya]

I really liked the songs Mike. I guess I am one of the few teenagers who would rather a movie score then a rock song....

[homerpalooza67]

do u have any more r2 renders u can post? its frikkin awesome work!!! (and maybe another nacelles shot?) :D

[mverta]

Well... I mean, I didn't have anything specific to render for right now... is there something you were hoping to see (that doesn't have nacelles)? I mean, are you looking for a desktop wallpaper or something?

_Mike

[homerpalooza67]

Yeah, just wallpapers and stuff, nothing really in particular, just...wallpapers, ya know...:D
thanx!!

[Wiz]

Every render so far is a cool desktop image :)

The image posted in the visual dictionary, are you allowed to post a hi-res version of that? Would also make a great desktop.

Also would be great and very much appreciated to see the make-up of the texture maps, would you mind breaking down and displaying the layers (for the dome for instance)?

Many thanks,

Paul.

[mverta]

Because Maxwell uses a physically-based approach, they're very simple...

http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/R2_Maps.jpg

And that's it. Drop Reflectance (Color) onto the reflectance channel, drop surface roughness map onto its channel, and bump onto its channel.

_Mike

[homerpalooza67]

Every render so far is a cool desktop image :)...

i HAVE all the renders posted so far!!! I need MORE!!!!! :D :D :D :D

[Wiz]

Awesome, thanks Mike.

I am tossing and turning with MR at the moment, so many bloody settings to play with, argghh.... But its all a learning process (well thats what I keep telling myself anyway ;))

I had a quick look at Maxwell, seems quite cool, and appears to be a lot easier to use than Mental ray (more user friendly), especially after reading what you have had to say about it.

Although having said that looking at Mental Ray in Max 9 they appear to have simplified it somewhat (finally) making it easier to use (from what I have read and seen so far - video tuts etc.).

I especially like the fact now that you dont have to wait for all the calculations to taken place before it shows you anything in the render window, very much akin to Maxwell(?) should save a lot of time.

Cheers,

Wiz.

[mverta]

I was a mental ray user for years and years and years, and believe me, you couldn't get me to go back to that engine now if you put a Winchester to my junk. Have fun. :D

_Mike

[DarthMaya]

Thanks for the pics of the maps Mike. :D

[Wiz]

LOL... thats it.

Gonna start saving my pennies and get me Maxwell :D

For now though persistence will be the virtue (or madness, one or the other).

:lol:

[homerpalooza67]

LOL... thats it.

Gonna start saving my pennies and get me Maxwell :D

For now persistence will be the virtue (or madness, one or the other).

:lol:

Im still trying to figure out the demo b4 i spend any money on the real thing. so far, i am impressed with the little i understand about maxwell :D

[mverta]

I'll be doing a basic materials demo pretty soon, which will help. Most people are really surprised when they see how it actually works.

_Mike

[Wiz]

Ooooh sweet!!! Looking forward to seeing that!

Will get the demo version for now and will and be ready to go!

:)

Cheers,

Wiz.

[ChrisGFX]

I'll be doing a basic materials demo pretty soon, which will help. Most people are really surprised when they see how it actually works.

_Mike

Thank you very much ... I'm pulling my hair out with MR material system ;)

Greets

Chris :)

[Wiz]

Yeah tell me about it, its like a minefield...

Glad to hear it isnt just me being a stupid (long term) newb with MR :)
Might drink less beer now hehe... :p

Mike, are ILM planning any further usage of your excellent R2?

Wouldnt suprise me in the slighest if Mr. Lucas replaces EPI/EPII and the EPIII R2 with yours for future re-releases of the films ;)

Cheers,

Paul.

[mverta]

ILM itself doesn't have the model - I was hired for a Lucasfilm gig, not through or by ILM for this particular job. And the Ranch is nowhere near ILM, either... In truth, it's not like they couldn't do it themselves, they just haven't, as yet. In any case, I've never been contacted about doing/submitting R2 for any future projects, but you just never know... It's certainly ready to go, though it wouldn't fit in a Renderman pipeline as it is.

_Mike

[homerpalooza67]

or all of them :)

[ChrisGFX]

ILM itself doesn't have the model - I was hired for a Lucasfilm gig, not through or by ILM for this particular job. And the Ranch is nowhere near ILM, either... In truth, it's not like they couldn't do it themselves, they just haven't, as yet. In any case, I've never been contacted about doing/submitting R2 for any future projects, but you just never know... It's certainly ready to go, though it wouldn't fit in a Renderman pipeline as it is.

_Mike

Hmmm ... didn't ILM made a CG R2 for Episode 3? ... for me R2 looks very CG in EP3 but ... ya know ... eyes are lieing ;)

Greets

Chris :)

[mverta]

I mean, ILM doesn't have THIS model. They sure as **** used a CG R2 in Ep3 and it makes me cringe. Makes a lot of people cringe, I'll bet. Especially the dynamics used in his animation, like he weighs about 20 pounds. Let me tell you, I have a couple of full-size R2's in my house and he weighs about 200 pounds. If you shot him out of a spaceship like that, it'd be a real problem. So silly.

_Mike

P.S. Actually, come to think of it, I could easily rig up a dynamics sim of my R2 at 200 pounds and see what it really would look like. Might do that sometime.

[Wiz]

You have serveral R2's? Sweet :) did you build these yourself? Any photos to show?

Yeah the one in EP3 was rather disapointing, not that I could do better (yet ;)).

Its mad to think that they couldnt see for themselves what was wrong with the R2 in the shots, especially when viewed on the big screen, Its not like they dont have the talent there to do a better job...

LOL... scarily just flicking the tv remote and AOTC is on sky/cable now,
oh god its the flying R2...

<scrambles for the remote>

:lol:

Wiz.

[ChrisGFX]

I mean, ILM doesn't have THIS model. They sure as **** used a CG R2 in Ep3 and it makes me cringe. Makes a lot of people cringe, I'll bet. Especially the dynamics used in his animation, like he weighs about 20 pounds. Let me tell you, I have a couple of full-size R2's in my house and he weighs about 200 pounds. If you shot him out of a spaceship like that, it'd be a real problem. So silly.

_Mike

P.S. Actually, come to think of it, I could easily rig up a dynamics sim of my R2 at 200 pounds and see what it really would look like. Might do that sometime.

I know I know ... yours is 300 tons better ;) ... IMO ILM should give you a job ;)

Greets

Chris

PS: now eating and then sleeping ;)

[homerpalooza67]

ILM should bow b4 your superiority, IMO. They do have talent, its just carelessness. :flippy: @George Lucas::fishslap:

[ChrisGFX]

ILM should bow b4 your superiority, IMO. They do have talent, its just carelessness. :flippy: @George Lucas::fishslap:

I don't think its carelessness ... Mikes R2 was build in months or maybe years ... the guys at ILM don't have that time ... they need to be done within days or weeks ... maybe they should have started with modeling in preproduction ;) ... next time they will do in Episode 7 :lol:

Greets

Chris :)

[homerpalooza67]

@Mverta: Do u have Blueprints that you can post here?


I don't think it was carelessness... How long does it take to program the same model to weigh 200 lbs instead of 20 lbs? were not even talking about the accuracy of the textures, its (relativley) simple rag-doll physics. if for the jump scenes, they had obi wan weigh 20 lbs, it would have looked totally ridiculus!!!

[mverta]

Chris -

This R2 was remodeled and textured from scratch in about 6 weeks. Billy Brooks had 19 weeks for R2 in Ep.1. In this instance, time is not an excuse.

_Mike


I don't think its carelessness ... Mikes R2 was build in months or maybe years ... the guys at ILM don't have that time ... they need to be done within days or weeks ... maybe they should have started with modeling in preproduction ;) ... next time they will do in Episode 7 :lol:

Greets

Chris :)

[IRML]

^well now you've gone from talking about R2 in ep3 to R2 in ep1, in whatever CG scenes of it there was in ep1 it looked perfect, but just because the model was slightly badly animated in one scene from ep3 shouldn't be an excuse to knock it

[Liam]

Oh....wow.

[mverta]

...nice Special Needs post...

IRML -

I've read your post 3 times now; I'm having a difficult time deciphering what you're trying to say. But I'm going to try and answer you as best as I can...

Ep.1's R2 wasn't "perfect" by any stretch of the imagination, and Billy will tell you that himself, if you ask him; he and I have long since become friends... there's no question that at the time, his R2 was very impressive, and is what made me take on the project in the first place.

Ep.3's R2 had many problems with it, aside from the ridiculous dynamics. It had a great many texture issues, and other animation problems which made it read very CG. As I stated previously, it is certainly not an issue of ILM not having the talent to do the project right, nor lack of materials, nor lack of interest, nor not having enough time. The truth is, we will never know exactly why the final product was shy of its potential, but that's the reality. In any case, each subsequent effort - either by myself or another artist - just sets a new standard which can be topped, with enough effort, time, and resources. Mine is not the end-all-be-all of R2 renders. There is no such thing.

_Mike

[ChrisGFX]

Chris -

This R2 was remodeled and textured from scratch in about 6 weeks. Billy Brooks had 19 weeks for R2 in Ep.1. In this instance, time is not an excuse.

_Mike

heh ... never knew that :)

Greets

Chris :)

[al3d]

or christ sake guys...just enjoy the movies instead of shredding them appart like they are corpses..!!!!jeez..Mike's R2 look insanely good. but for those of you who don't know what they're talking abou..doing a R3 for print and one for film is 2 ****ing different thing.so stop bitching about ILM or Lucas and watch trek if you thinnk SW blows so much!...then you'll have something to bitch about for the next 20 years

[Dallidas]

or christ sake guys...just enjoy the movies instead of shredding them appart like they are corpses..!!!!jeez..Mike's R2 look insanely good. but for those of you who don't know what they're talking abou..doing a R3 for print and one for film is 2 ****ing different thing.so stop bitching about ILM or Lucas and watch trek if you thinnk SW blows so much!...then you'll have something to bitch about for the next 20 years

agreed, only not so angerly:thumb:

[IRML]

IRML -

I've read your post 3 times now; I'm having a difficult time deciphering what you're trying to say. But I'm going to try and answer you as best as I can...

Ep.1's R2 wasn't "perfect" by any stretch of the imagination, and Billy will tell you that himself, if you ask him; he and I have long since become friends... there's no question that at the time, his R2 was very impressive, and is what made me take on the project in the first place.

Ep.3's R2 had many problems with it, aside from the ridiculous dynamics. It had a great many texture issues, and other animation problems which made it read very CG. As I stated previously, it is certainly not an issue of ILM not having the talent to do the project right, nor lack of materials, nor lack of interest, nor not having enough time. The truth is, we will never know exactly why the final product was shy of its potential, but that's the reality. In any case, each subsequent effort - either by myself or another artist - just sets a new standard which can be topped, with enough effort, time, and resources. Mine is not the end-all-be-all of R2 renders. There is no such thing.

_Mikewhat I'm trying to say is everyone started dissing R2 in episode 3 because of 'crappy dynamics', and you say this guy had 19 weeks to build it in episode 1, which was like 6 years earlier, whatever CG there was of R2 in episode 1 was as near to perfect as you can probably get, even a trained CG eye would have a very hard time spotting it, so basically all this nitpicking is just stupid

[ChrisGFX]

or christ sake guys...just enjoy the movies instead of shredding them appart like they are corpses..!!!!jeez..Mike's R2 look insanely good. but for those of you who don't know what they're talking abou..doing a R3 for print and one for film is 2 ****ing different thing.so stop bitching about ILM or Lucas and watch trek if you thinnk SW blows so much!...then you'll have something to bitch about for the next 20 years

how rude :lol:

can't remember I was bitching ;) ... but ...
with that budget ILM or Lucas has they really should do better :) (no rant!)

but back to topic:
Mike: I'm really looking forward to your little tutorial how you made the Textures-Setup in Maxwell for R2.

Greets

Chris :)

[al3d]

how rude :lol:

can't remember I was bitching ;) ... but ...
with that budget ILM or Lucas has they really should do better :) (no rant!)

but back to topic:
Mike: I'm really looking forward to your little tutorial how you made the Textures-Setup in Maxwell for R2.

Greets

Chris :)

dude..all SW sequels were done for less then haft the budjet of any sci-fi or fantasy movies!...

[ChrisGFX]

dude..all SW sequels were done for less then haft the budjet of any sci-fi or fantasy movies!...

:cool:

[SouthPark]

I hate to say this but ..... that looks EXACTLY like R2D2. Excellent work!

[mverta]

Lots of mis-information being thrown around here, guys...

The budgets for the SW prequels aren't miracles of frugality. ILM gets most of their hardware for free, and artists and companies will bend over backwards (i.e. whore themselves out) to be a part of Star Wars, to say nothing of the fact that it is far easier to manage budgets when everything is in house. And to address Alain's comment directly, there was no workflow difference between my "print R2" and if I'd done the job for film. Except I would've needed to rig it - just a couple of days. I'm not a "print" guy, and I had far less time to create this R2 than I would have had if it was for film.


Additionally, IF you have a problem with the prequels, it isn't because they didn't have resources - financial, creative, or schedule-wise to do a better job. Somehow, to me, even suggesting this sounds like you're apologizing for the films.

Obviously, based on the way some of you guys are weighing in, there's some sort of raw nerve about this on this forum. Do me a favor, and take it somewhere else.

Now, as for "nitpicking." I don't consider every negative opinion of something "nitpicking." I don't like child molesters. That's not nitpicking, it's on opinion. I didn't like the R2 in Ep.3. That's not nitpicking, it's an opinion; an opinion I could specify with a laundry list of major reasons, not just because of "little things."

Further, IRML, you may not be able to tell the difference between Ep.1's CG R2 and a real one, but I sure as hell can. But I'll tell Billy you said that.

To be honest, jumping in on a thread and starting to scream and insult people is really amateur night; take a few breaths, and don't post angry.


_Mike

[IRML]

why don't you post some screen shots and tell me the problems then, I'd really love to know

[mverta]

With which one, Ep.1's or Ep.3's?

_Mike

[IRML]

ep 1, I could tell you what was CG and what wasn't in ep 3, but not in ep 1

[SCIFI 3D zoo]

Anybody ever tell you Mike you look like George Clooney a bit... grey your hair out and you got it. Just an observation, not a compliment. I'm not hitting on you. :eek: Yikes.. that was close. Not that there's anything wrong with being gay. Ain't my sorta bag baby.

As far as CGI goes... I don't see how people would notice little stuff like textures on a small on-screen model, that is moving, with motion-blur, dust, etc. Only high-tech folks like you Mike would even notice. You can get away with so much in a film. And anything close-up like your test renders.. in a film they would use a physical model for more likely.

The animation... YIKES. I haven't really heard people talk about it before but yea... those R2 shots in EP3 are really animated in a very unrealistic manner. I accepted the Yoda fights from EP2 and EP3. I couldn't see any other way how they could be done. BUT... these really are movies for kids. So George might have been thinking it was funnier that way?? I could see kids enjoying those things animated that way better.

If you could find out anything ask about these decisions, and why they were made that way. That would be very interesting. I always check out all the behind-the-scenes stuff, commentaries, etc. I thought it was funny how Steve "Spaz" Williams and a cohort got kicked out of ILM for sneaking around in George's office. Then they formed their own studio called "Banned from the Ranch" and did not so great work on SPAWN.

Opinions. I think people in the "western" part of the world are too caught up into their "RIGHTS". They worry about what they have a right to do all the time and not whether it is right. There's always a higher truth. You'll never get there because nothing is perfect. But we should STRIVE for this state of perfection. And that means letting go of one's ego, being open, learning to adapt. Don't get stuck on yourself. Nothing wrong with saying I didn't like EP2 R2-D2... but say way. Debate your opinion with yourself and absorb others opinions. Don't be an ass and get stuck on your way of thinking. HONESTLY... you should be constantly evolving your opinions and attitudes. Forever taking in information.

That's what I see when I read stuff like this. I see people with all sorts of unwavering, cynical bad attitudes. There's really nothing to argue about. We should be seeking more information. Obviously there were decisions made about the way R2 looked and performed. It would be interesting to know why. And maybe it was as simple as not putting enough effort and there were plenty of resources. There are some things I like and don't like about every movie. People take normal stuff like that and run with it when what they really have is an irrational attitude. Some people for no logical reason just want to hate on Star Wars. Maybe they feel it gets more attention than Star Trek and they don't think it deserves it. You'll never get anywhere and get past stuff like this if you're not honest with yourself. Only then can you figure out who you really are and actually grow.

Dr.Zoo steps off podium.
"Take two Xanax and call me in the morning".

[mverta]

Amen, Zoo. Though I will say that it is not just the details which make or break things, but basic issues of physics and light propogation which cause "laypeople" to spot CG things from a mile away. Working on the details helps, but you have to get the big things right, too.

Now, a screenshot:
http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/TPM_017.jpg

If this doesn't read CG to you, I don't know what to tell you. A large part of what's happening/not happening here is that the aluminum shader isn't performing accurately (the ior is extremely narrow-band, and the anisotropy isn't happening much, either), and the blue paint shader isn't performing the multi-layered, narrow-angle Fresnel stuff, which makes or breaks that material. We "know" R2's look, including his paint, and this is just not quite it. The overall lighting stuff is fine, but there's quite a bit "flat" in the image as a result of not getting some of the bigger things right. I think this is a good shot to analyze, because it is both dark (hides things) and is a challenging environment (reveals things).

One thing I feel strongly, though... is that in general, the Ep.1 effects were the best of the 3.

_Mike

[ChrisGFX]

.../SNIP/...

One thing I feel strongly, though... is that in general, the Ep.1 effects were the best of the 3.

_Mike

agree :thumb:

Greets

Chris :)

[IRML]

Amen, Zoo. Though I will say that it is not just the details which make or break things, but basic issues of physics and light propogation which cause "laypeople" to spot CG things from a mile away. Working on the details helps, but you have to get the big things right, too.

Now, a screenshot:
http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/TPM_017.jpg

If this doesn't read CG to you, I don't know what to tell you. A large part of what's happening/not happening here is that the aluminum shader isn't performing accurately (the ior is extremely narrow-band, and the anisotropy isn't happening much, either), and the blue paint shader isn't performing the multi-layered, narrow-angle Fresnel stuff, which makes or breaks that material. We "know" R2's look, including his paint, and this is just not quite it. The overall lighting stuff is fine, but there's quite a bit "flat" in the image as a result of not getting some of the bigger things right. I think this is a good shot to analyze, because it is both dark (hides things) and is a challenging environment (reveals things).

One thing I feel strongly, though... is that in general, the Ep.1 effects were the best of the 3.

_MikeI agree with you that the effects in ep1 were the best of the 3, but I'm not seeing what's wrong with the image, space is dark so for me that explains why it's not reflecting much

[mverta]

The reflection amount isn't the issue; it's the nature of the reflection not being accurate, for the reasons I stated (which is a fact, not an opinion); along with the other issues. The engine used to render these images does not reproduce the full spectrum of ior properties. It's not even a spectral renderer.

In truth, I can't tell you to see this image as CG. You either do, or you don't. But the truth is that if you took a real R2 and photographed it under these conditions, it would look different - vastly different;differences very easy to spot. Absent this comparison, you may be convinced. And if so, that's great. I can't NOT see the obvious missing/unrealistic things, so my eye reads it for what it is, which is CG. And again, I could make a laundry list of things which are not photorealistically accurate about it, but that might not change a thing about your perception, which is obviously relative.

_Mike

[mverta]

http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/R2_GS1.jpg

This is a shot of R2 in front of an amazing cityscape, with flying vehicles of all kinds, and a fierce ion storm raging in the atmosphere. No, really.

_Mike

[USS Mariner]

That shot makes you wonder how they can get all the green reflection out of him and composite him in the first place...

[ChrisGFX]

http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/R2_GS1.jpg

This is a shot of R2 in front of an amazing cityscape, with flying vehicles of all kinds, and a fierce ion storm raging in the atmosphere. No, really.

_Mike

yes ... I can imagine :)

Greets

Chris :)

[DarthMaya]

Ok mike this is going to kill you.....but I topped your R2,I know its hard to be defeated. ..........21952.................What???


:lol:

The only thing thats killing you is the inaccuracy.

P.s This model is like 1 and a half years old, from when I was just starting. So I might be able to do better now. :D

[Drummer]

That shot makes you wonder how they can get all the green reflection out of him and composite him in the first place...

I found this a very good point...hadnt thought about it before simply because its a major studio doing the cgi but...how do they greenscreen with so much spill in this shiny little fellow?:confused:

[mverta]

It's a nightmare, but do-able. On Ep.1, George kept having R2 roll off the green/blue screen and he had to be roto'd a ton.

_Mike

[IRML]

That shot makes you wonder how they can get all the green reflection out of him and composite him in the first place...after effects has a spill suppressor, it works really well, although if R2 had any green parts on him they would probably get suppressed too

[Drummer]

It's a nightmare, but do-able. On Ep.1, George kept having R2 roll off the green/blue screen and he had to be roto'd a ton.

_Mike

oooh i had my suspicions but i naively presumed they would have tools to automate the process...feeling cross eyed just thinking about roto'ing that much footage...:eek:

[stonky]

R2 isn't a huge roto problem because of his geometric nature, and it's amazing what high end compositing packages can do with suppression these days. It's also to their advantage that R2's details are blue, because they can use greenscreen instead of blue, and the results are generally better simply because of the order in which the incoming light to the camera hits the emulsion layers of the film (but of course, this point is moot if you're shooting digitally).

Mike, your R2 is outstanding. The subtleties in the shading amongst the complex materials (substrates, etc.) are fantastic. Like you mentioned before, I think that the only areas that might give it away as being synthetic are the textured nicks and bumps on the body panels and facade. Excellent work.

[JeneralJarJar]

http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/R2_GS1.jpg


Heh. That made me do a double-take. I think the only thing that gives it away really as CG are the specular highlights. Maybe too overblown I think.

But fantastic nontheless. :)

[mverta]

Most people do their specular glare/glow in post, so you have no idea what it would really look like, given a certain lens/optics system. Fortunately, Maxwell does, so this glare is physically accurate given the light source, lens optics, and exposure. Didn't have to touch a thing :D One of the nice parts of it, as well, is that the glare is not uniform, as it wouldn't be... Sort of ironic though - so much CG, we lose our ability to judge what reality looks like. Of course, with a different lens, different exposure..............

_Mike

[Glazy]

You've lost me now Mike,I actually thought this pic was a real photograph of R2 from a behind the scenes shot !! Can you please mark up what's real and what isn't next time :) Is that pic on your avatar real or is that CG too ? :)

[Dallidas]

wait, so the green screen scene is fake?

[mverta]

Are you guys f'in with me... I can't tell :) Yes, the whole thing is "fake" - we'll call it CG, to be kind. :D Just a bunch of triangles, a few materials and 2 lights. By the way, the whole thing is lit with just those two overhead softboxes.. no special "fills" or anything.. the light you can see in frame, and the one reflected in his blue dome ring are it.

_Mike

[B.J.]

I'm not messing with you - I thought it was real too!

[Glazy]

Honestly,I thought it was real behind the scenes piccy that you were using as an example of how the real R2 looks when lit,I even did a Google search to try and find the pic !!

[Drummer]

i thought it was a behind the scenes shot too :o
boy oh boy have i got a lot of learning to do...
your work is breathtaking:thumb:

[scifieric]

I wasn't sure if that green screen was real or not ... but I thought it was.

Ugh. I may have to start saving. Maxwell is not cheap.

[chrono]

Ugh. I may have to start saving. Maxwell is not cheap.

Good tools are never cheap nor easy to find without help.:cool:

[Freak]

Holy S***! I through it was a real pic! So much to learn.

[Freak]

Loving that pic Mike.

At the last SFM'er in the UK meet up, Andrew March let me listen to some of the music you have done. I have to say I loved it. I have been looking to find some of your albums so I can listen to more. But I can find any in the normal Music stores (HMV, Virgin Megastore) and the local sci-fi shop round the corner form Lester Square, never get any in. Do you know of anywhere in the UK or London that I can pick up a copy of one of your albums?

[mverta]

Depends what you're looking for. My commercial CD's were Jazz albums, which I bought back from my label a number of years ago, and haven't bothered to have them distributed again. To be honest, I get more royalties from all the satellite radio and digital music programming, anyway. If you really want them, PM me and I can hook you up. If you're looking for film music/TV music, then most of that even *I* barely have access to, either because they're just one-offs that the studio owns "in perpetuity for all known media in the universe, etc. etc. etc." or I just never bothered to get a copy and go through the hassle of seeking permission to post stuff. But again, I might have more stuff if you give me an idea of what you're looking for. In any case, it means a great deal to me when people say that they like the music; that means it's made some little contribution, and for me, that's what it's all about. So thank you, from the heart.

_Mike

[Drummer]

Mike your work speaks for itself:thumb: ...imho there was no need for you to take the bait and 'lower' yourself to reply.

Personally, as someone finding his feet with cg, i feel that there is room for all levels and quality of work...at the moment id love to be where JDR is with his cg and i do find it slightly disheartening that you slate his work...albeit as a reaction to his slight...

JDR...chill man

i understand that there appears to be a bitter history between you two:confused: at the end of the day it is your thread but i feel that somewhere a fairy has just died!:( back to neverland with me then...

[mverta]

Drummer -

Sometimes you gotta stand up to the bully. -COMENT REMOVED by Aceman- It's not about the level of work. My work sucked when I started. Compared to some people, it still does. There's no shame - but indeed, honor - in the process of improving one's craft. The difference is you want to learn, and ask questions, and that's what it's all about. You're not slithering around the forum treating people like crap; he does, because he's a turd. In the end, believe me, I ask questions all the time too, from people far more talented than myself. I sure as hell don't walk up to Habib Zargapour and insult him and his work. He could hand me my ass on a plate with all the trimmings in 3 seconds. So don't let this stuff, or this guy, bum you out. I just got tired of his crap. Apparently, there was some sort of history there, but to be honest, I had completely forgotten about him. Clearly, though, he can't get enough of me :D They're always like that. :cool:

Make no mistake... I will always answer questions, provide tips, feedback, whatever. That's most of the reason I'm here. A lot of people PM or email me, too. In the end, we're on the same team.

_Mike

[Aceman]

I have cleaned up this thread in the hopes that we can continue to have a constructive and educational discussion. I would politely, but with a hint of warning, ask that if you can not conduct yourself at a minimum level of maturity that you refrain from posting in this thread.

This is a warning to keep the gloves up and hold a educational discussion. If anyone goes lower, I'll start issuing warnings.

Play nice.
Aceman

BTW - Mike - After reading through this thread it appeared to me that several members thought that the greenscreen image you posted was an actual behind-the-scene photo to show how they shot the R2. Their's no question that the space shot of the R2 is a CG created image. Just to clarify for everyone. I know I got kinda of lost in the thread.

[JDR]

-Aceman removed comment and issued a warning-

[al3d]

on another subject...this model as been done for a long time..should'nt this be in 3D Gallery and not wip?

[JDR]

Got news for you Mike, the shot you're going on about looking "so CG" was actually a real R2 on a real set of that section of the ship.

[al3d]

Unfortunaly i have to agree with Simon here Mike...i got 2 books that sais the same thing. it was filmed on stage, with a portion of the ship.

[Bug 2000]

Unfortunaly i have to agree with Simon here Mike...i got 2 books that sais the same thing. it was filmed on stage, with a portion of the ship.

Hey al,

Can you scan them?

Thanks.

[al3d]

Hey al,

Can you scan them?

Thanks.

no scanner unfortunaly

[JDR]

Here's a scan of the page in question.

[Glazy]

I'd always assumed that the shot where R2 pops up through the hole in the ship and skids down the slope to where the droids are was CG R2 and the actual shots of them fixing are like the pic that JDR has posted,real props on a greenscreen stage !

[Wiz]

Yeah it certainly looks that way, the close ups on the repair are actual real shots as JDR and Al3d describe although when he pops up through the hole and rolls down surely that is CG.

If it isnt then my version of R2 is looking more and more like the real thing :p

Wiz.

[JustinDixon]

looks good mike. Maxwell is a wonderful r/s, aint it? Unfortunently it's painfully slow and expensive. However, that should be sped up and price lowered as they perfect the technology :)

[mverta]

1) That shot is CG. There are practical cuts in the sequence, but the shot in question is CG, confirmed.

2) Regarding how "slow" Maxwell is... my mental ray R2 that used to be posted here, takes 8+ hours to render. Maxwell can do that exact shot in 1.4 hours. Its speed just depends on the nature of the scene. So far, Maxwell's speed has not been an issue for me.

_Mike

[JDR]

1) You suck

2) You're an idiot.

[StarSlayer]

wow nice to know we are using our big words

insults wer much more interesting when they include phrases like "lowbred cur" and "a pox on both your houses" i dunno adds a little class :P

but i digress

That R2 is impressive, most impressive.

[NanoGator]

1) You suck

2) You're an idiot.

Banned.

[JustinDixon]

1)
2) Regarding how "slow" Maxwell is... my mental ray R2 that used to be posted here, takes 8+ hours to render. Maxwell can do that exact shot in 1.4 hours. Its speed just depends on the nature of the scene. So far, Maxwell's speed has not been an issue for me.

_Mike

Forgive me mate, I don't really have experience in Mental Ray. However I suppose it makes sense because mental ray would need to do more calculations to try and simulate the lighting conditions while maxwell is actually MADE to make those calculations, make them faster and more accurate.

[Bug 2000]

Hey Mike,

Can we see some wire renders, please.

Take care, mate.

[mverta]

D4327 - Hmm.. it's not that so much... they just have completely different approaches towards light propogation. Maxwell was designed from the ground up to simulate physical phenomena in a way that mental ray wasn't. And as it is, Maxwell is only at 1.1. Even our next Maxwell in testing is faster... that's just how it goes. But again, rendertime is just one little piece of the puzzle.. setup time, etc. is a fraction of the time normally spent. There is a video tut that I did on the maxwellrender forum if you're interested.

Bug200 - Yep, I'll get some together for ya.

_Mike

[mverta]

http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/R2_WirePS.jpg

_Mike

[Bug 2000]

Thanks! :cool:

[JustinDixon]

holy crap, that was a model?!?!?!