3D Another take on the Ingram Class [Archive]

Jayru

17th Dec 2006, 20:20

Ok, well I've posted comments on other peoples work - posted the odd finished picture (back before the site was rebuilt) - but never gone out on a limb and shared a WIP.

About six months ago I started working on making a version of the "Ingram Class", based on the plans and designs of Todd Guenther. The ship is his take on what the Excelsior should have looked like, and to be honest a far better looking concept, IMOO. For those interested copies of the plans can be found here >> Star Trek LCARS Blueprint Database - Star Trek Blueprints: U.S.S. Excelsior Ingram Class Plans (http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/excelsior-blueprints.php). The picture quality wasn't so great on the site, so I went out on a limb and bought a set of the plans to work from.

Anyhow, after a few months work on mesh I kind of drifted away from the designs a bit when I started wandering what a refit version would look like. After all the Excelsior had some minor (but noticable) modifications in STVI - and the Ingram would have been about the same age. I didn't want make major changes, becasue then it wouldn't be the same ship - but I couldn't but tinker (ok, slapped wrist time). That and someone else is working on proper version of the ship (Tallguy, his wip thread can be found here >> http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/3d-wips/14153-u-s-s-ingram-not-you.html

So here is my take on a "refit" version of the Ingram Class, or - if you prefer, an Ingram variant. The main changes are that I've curved out the secondary hull, changed the nacelle pylons, and added some extra parts to the main shuttle bay, oh - and changed the shield grid on the lower saucer. Aside from that, I've tried to ramain faithful to the original design...

Still lots to do - including thinking about textures at some point, but let me know what you think. Just be gentle, this is my first time posting something like this...

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

** Addendum **

Sorry guys and gals, but I’ve had to start culling some of the images I’ve put on this thread to make space for new ones – which can be found on the latest posts about this project. So have no fear, there are pretty pics on this thread - just on the later pages (Page 70 onwards) :thumb:

Starship

17th Dec 2006, 21:20

Certainlly it looks interesting...

evil_genius_180

17th Dec 2006, 21:25

I'm a huge Excelsior fan, but this ship is really cool too. Outstanding start. :thumb:

Jayru

17th Dec 2006, 22:09

Here's some orthos...

Going to start working on the torpedo bay(/bays?) next...

PS: Cheers evil_genius_180 ... seriously I have been working (on and off) on this for 5/6 months... hopefully the pace will pick up...

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

evil_genius_180

18th Dec 2006, 03:03

The only thing I don't like about this ship are those thin nacelles, but that's not your fault, someone else designed it. I like thicker, meatier nacelles. :devil:

Jayru

18th Dec 2006, 07:58

The only thing I don't like about this ship are those thin nacelles, but that's not your fault, someone else designed it. I like thicker, meatier nacelles. :devil:

I know what you mean, took me a while to get used to them, and I don't think mine are as thin as the ones on the plans. In context of the design I think it works. The refit 1701 has thin nacelles... this ship is just following that trend... I'm pretty confident that the nacelles on this baby are done, just need to be textured - but I'm sure I will think of something to add... :rolleyes:

Closer look at the impulse deflection crystal thingy... pretty much finished. May play around with using a glass material, and building the room/section under it to add some depth... I certainly plan to do that with the windowed sections... although it will depend on how good I turn out to be at modelling as to whether I show the results

Off to do work on the torpedo bay... or watch a DVD... more as an when...

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Jayru

18th Dec 2006, 13:09

Well, here's a take on the torpedo launcher details. Even with in hand paper plans some of the detailing is a little hard to make out, so I've based the design on what the refit connie has (which seems close to original launcher design for this ship).

Again, shifting away from the plans, I've reduced the forward launchers from three to two, but increased the aft launchers from zero to two (so the ships gained one extra torpedo launcher...)

Edit: added the fore/aft orthos so you can see how the torp launchers fit in...

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Starscream

18th Dec 2006, 16:49

Jayru

18th Dec 2006, 17:10

*sniff*

I love it so much I could cry! (but I won't) I hope you'll go for a Constitution-style texture set rather than anything similar to Excelsior. All those coloured panels never made any sense to me - and the situation got worse when we got handed the cr@pfest that was the Ent-E...

On the subject of nacelles, how about increasing both the width and height together? Their length seems fine, but if you increased the other dimensions it might suit the fore/aft views a little better. :)

:thumb:

I will be using a texture/colour scheme more in line with the refit connie. The base colour for this ship will be white.

I played around with the nacelles quite a lot trying to get the ballance right with the design. I didn't want to stray too much from the blueprints - which I kind of have now, but I wanted to keep the nacelle width more in line with the what the refit Constitution has rather then go for the porportions used on the Excelsior Class. There isn't a great deal of difference between the Excelsior nacelles and the Ingrams, aside from the width, the detailing on top, and the additional fins. Certainly the height looks right from the side - but as you say, from the front and rear it don't look quite right...

Have some ideas for some changes I could make to the nacelles. Strangly enough they are the one thing about this mesh that is spot on to the plans, but - as they say, in for a penny, in for a pound. I'm going to try and echo some of the design elements from the Constitution.

At the moment I am trying to sort out a cock up with the main shuttle bay. I've only just noticed that the curve at the back is missing - once I have that sorted I shall play around with the nacelle design....

I suppose I also should start thinking about the adding the shield grid onto the stardrive section, and the other shuttle bay/cargo bay doors....

Tallguy

18th Dec 2006, 20:34

Jayru

18th Dec 2006, 21:43

Interesting. It looks like you've steered many of the details in a more Excelsior-like direction. The whole secondary hull, for instance. I'll be intrigued to see what else you come up with.

BTW, Todd Guenther had always intended the "refit" to eliminate the huge (failed) transwarp engines and replace them with standard LN-64 (Enterprise) nacelles. Mostl people think that this puts it way off ballance, aesthetics-wise, but he digs them.

I haven't really done too much work on the secondary hull - most of it is place holders until I get round to it. I intend to emulate the Ingrams stardrive section, but make it a bit more streamlined (like why is that important in space?) and curvy. At the moment it does emulate the curves of an Excelsior stardrive section, from the top/bottom views. But the side view is based off the Ingram. I need to put some better pics of that up as I cocked up the shuttle bay (must remember to check those tick boxes...). It makes a big difference in how it looks... I need to get the rest of the details built into the impulse deck as well - that's no where near finished, and I am unhappy with the details I've put on it so far.

The nacelles are pretty spot on as far as the plans go. I actually prefer the thinner design myself - I think it balances the ship quite nicely (IMOO). Keeping with the whole refit idea, I have some ideas of what I could add to them... but in terms of there width, I'd like to keep that element of the design. Other wise I may as well just slap Excelsior nacelles on this ship :o

LOL, never thought about the neck (or dorsal interconnector for hard-core fans). That's pretty spot on to the plans too...

Personally I think the Excelsior sucked, and should have been re-worked :devil:. Ok, it got a bit of a face lift in STVI, but not much of one. Guenther's design is more appealing, and carries over many of the design elements from the Constitution and Miranda(Avenger?) designs, especially on the saucer. The Ingram looks like it's intended to go fast. :thumb:

I'm presenting a possible refit of the design, or if people prefer another Excelsior/Ingram variant. When I started I didn't intend to deviat from the plans (given what it cost me to get a copy, seems silly to have done so :rolleyes: ), just happened one Sunday afternoon after my partner made some observations about the design, which I agreed with.

When I started with the refit idea, I made a copy of the plans and sketched out the changes I thought might work. However, as much as possible I want to stick to keeping this mesh close to the Ingram feel, and design. The fact your working on an accurate version makes me feel less guilty about what I'm doing, and I'm rather looking forward to seeing an actual 3D representation of the Ingram, and seeing how what I've done holds up.

aridas sofia

19th Dec 2006, 04:50

BTW, Todd Guenther had always intended the "refit" to eliminate the huge (failed) transwarp engines and replace them with standard LN-64 (Enterprise) nacelles. Mostl people think that this puts it way off ballance, aesthetics-wise, but he digs them.

Not the exact nacelles from the refit E. Heftier, beefed-up versions. "LN-72" IIRC. They can be seen on his Ingram-refit plans.

Those are the nacelles I ended up using on the Ariel in its finished form (after I messed around with using the 1701 refit's and these from the original Ingram.)

evil_genius_180

19th Dec 2006, 05:58

Nice work on the deflection crystal and photorp launchers. :thumb: Also, interesting placement on those launchers. Is that on the blueprints or something you thought of?

Jayru

19th Dec 2006, 08:52

Nice work on the deflection crystal and photorp launchers. :thumb: Also, interesting placement on those launchers. Is that on the blueprints or something you thought of?

The forward launchers are pretty much where they should be (based on the blueprints) - although I have reduced the number from three to two. The placement of the aft launchers was my own idea, as there are none on the blueprints. In total I've added one extra torpedo tube to ships weapons, but just balanced out the fore/aft fireing options. Seems logical in terms of a refit, does it not?

I was a bit worried about reducing the forward fire-power of the ship, but I figured that given it has two phaser cannons on the nacelle pylons this ship already has a lot of forward fire power - just not much aft, hence the addition of aft tubes, which very few Starfleet ships of the time seem to have (and seems to be a bit of a blind spot).

I've added a small omni light to the inside of the tubes so it looks like those red pannels are producing a nice glow. Ok, the only (2) Starfleet ship(s) ever to be seen (on screen that is) with red glowing torpedo tubes was(/were) the Constitution Class Enterprise (and Enterprise-A). The Excelsior Class had a completely different tube design, placed on either side of the stardrive section. It was kind of debatable as to whether to add any glows to the torp-tubes, and I didn't want to cheat and simply add a red glow at the back of the tube. The red glow has to come from something (well ok, it doesn't), and maybe it has something to do with some type of exposed acceleration coils for launching the torps? That's as good an explination as any. Of course the truth is, that it looks cool :thumb: so that's why there's a glow... I've attached a pic showing it - and a close up of one of the phaser cannons as well. Those are more based on the design seen in use on the Miranda class, then the Ingrams blueprints... Let me know what you think...

The impulse cyrstal thingy was a lot of fun to build. Who knew you could do so much with extruding? LOL building it was absolute hell on earth actually, but I learned a lot from doing it. One of the reasons for going public with this ship/mesh/wip is that I may need to shout "help!" at some point... max is a tool I am not yet used too...

On the better news, we've sorted on the problems with our hosting space, so after this post I'll be hosting future pics via my own site (as I am in danger of running out of space here...)

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

evil_genius_180

19th Dec 2006, 08:59

Awesome detailing on the pylon and the torpedo tube looks mad now. :devil:

Jayru

19th Dec 2006, 09:03

Awesome detailing on the pylon and the torpedo tube looks mad now. :devil:

They do look angry, don't they? LOL

Cheers :thumb:, the pylons were one of the first things I finished on this mesh. Will get some renders done of them today, got some nice details on them, including thruster bays (as per the plans)...

LOL, going to put up some alternate takes on the warp nacelles later. It will be interesting to see how people react to them.... :devil:

Jayru

19th Dec 2006, 09:56

Here's some links to rendered shots of the pylons, and phaser cannons... enjoy... (and as always, comments welcome);

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Starship

19th Dec 2006, 11:31

Comming along very nice ! Great details !

Jayru

19th Dec 2006, 12:04

Cheers Starship :thumb:

Reworked some of the detailing on the "Impulse Deck" - keeping it more in the style of what the Ingram has... at some point I will put some detaling in those bays (or "flush vents" as the blueprints call them). Off for food, and then will sort out some ideas for the Nacelles....

@ aridas sofia do you have any pictures of the nacelles you did/used? Would be interested to see.

@ Tallguy, sorry to ask, (and excuse me if I sound thick), but did Guenther release a second set of plans for the Ingram? Or am I missing something in reference to the "refit" version of it? What I've got is the collectors edition with 8 sheets... If there is something else, are there any references you can point me to?

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Jayru

19th Dec 2006, 13:43

Had an idea for a quick change to the way the nacelles look. First pic is the nacelle - as it is now. Second pic is the nacelle with an additional brace - but the cowling and vains the same colour as before. Third pic is with the cowling and vains changed to match the colours of the refit connie. Any comments?

Edit: Spent some time playing around with the Nacelles, and I'm not happy with any of the ideas I am coming up with, the pics I've put up aren;t really inspiring... Either I come up with something very new and different, or I leave it as it is. May leave this for the time being, and concentrate on the rest of the mesh...

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Starscream

19th Dec 2006, 17:10

I kinda like the middle one, certainly an improvement either way!

Jayru

19th Dec 2006, 17:15

I kinda like the middle one, certainly an improvement either way!

I may have another way of doing it... I'll try and post an update later on...

Jayru

19th Dec 2006, 21:46

Ok so nacelle ideas sucked, and given the lack of replies I'm guessing they were really uninteresting... no probs, LOL.

Anyhow, decided to go back to the drawing board on the Nacelles, and rebuilt them. Kept the overall shape roughly the same but have tried to make it different to what i did before...

Anyhow, have hit a major snag with the mesh, so there may be no updates for a while. The files size suddenly jumped by 500% for some reason, and is casuing problems. I need to investigate what I've done...

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

evil_genius_180

20th Dec 2006, 06:23

I like it. :devil:

Jayru

20th Dec 2006, 12:39

Ironically it's closer to the plans than the first one I did.

:mad: found the problem in the mesh. Seems the new grills on the nacelles were too uber-poly :rolleyes: . Have sorted that out. The file is once again workable...

Decided to take a break from working on the model, and try and create some texture maps... Here's a test shot of the saucer...

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

PS: Yes, I have been back and edited all the former posts with pics ;-)

Starscream

20th Dec 2006, 17:57

Very nice! It really does look far more related to the refit TMP ships than the Excelsior did... :)

admiral horton

20th Dec 2006, 18:03

question: Is this a TNG or post-TNG refit or a pre-TNG refit.However so far its looking good hope to see more.

Jayru

20th Dec 2006, 19:03

Very nice! It really does look far more related to the refit TMP ships than the Excelsior did... :)

That's my intention, to make the ship look like it came out of the same ship yards that built the Consititution and Miranda classes. The colour scheme and hull panneling are going to very much reflect that look and style (if I can create decent enough texture maps :eek: ).

question: Is this a TNG or post-TNG refit or a pre-TNG refit.However so far its looking good hope to see more.

This is a late era TMP, post ST5/6 refit. My thoughts are that several Ingram class were built - although not as many as the Excelsior class. Sometime between ST5 and ST6 the Excelsior went through a minor refit - new impulse deck, changes to the main shuttle bay, new bridge modual (screen evidence for these changes can be found at: Ex Astris Scientia (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/excelsior-size.htm) in an article about the size/scale of the Excelsior). I think it's possible (logical?) that some of Ingram may have receaved updates/upgrades/refits by this time - given that they would have been around a decade+ old, (the same age as the Excelsior). Of course, that's just my thinking. Alternativly, this could just be a variant of the design :thumb:

Jayru

20th Dec 2006, 22:38

Here the latest orthos. Updates are minor, but include a re-shape impulse deck, and engins, making it a: less wide, and b: the engins deeper. A new "b deck" which is more in keeping with the plans, the sorted out main shuttle bay, the sorted out saucer rim (a horrible black line is now gone) - and of course the rebuilt nacelles.

Tomorrow? Work begins on a new look bridge module. With the new "b deck" I've realised that the running lights on the bridge wont be able to light the top of the saucer up - so I'm gonna have a go at making a bridge/deck 1 like the Excelsior had in ST6 - well, somthing like it anyway... either that or move the running lights. Which ever looks better :lol:

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

harrisw

21st Dec 2006, 00:57

I actually preferred the 3rd nacelle design

Jayru

21st Dec 2006, 14:08

I actually preferred the 3rd nacelle design

Thanks harrisw, I was leaning more that way myself - but I had to junk the originally nacelle and do a rebuild. Thought it better to rebuild it as is in the plans, and then move with any changes from there. I will come back to what I'm going to do with them later :thumb:

Been looking back over some of the comments in this thread - especially the ones made by aridas sofia and Tallguy in reference to a revised design for the Ingram, and the change of nacelles. After some hunting around I have found out that Todd Guenther released two sets of plans - one in 1986, which is the set I am using - and a revised set of plans in 1996 - which I knew nothing about, but thanks to ebay I know own (quick 'aint I?). It's also nice to know what's being talked about :thumb:

The only online reference I have been able to find to the "revised" edition to the ships design is at the Starship Schematics Database, and I have no idea if it is correct. Anyhow, they do have a correct image up for the original design: Starship Schematics Database: USS Ingram (http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/heavycruiser_ingram.jpg), and here's the one that could be the revised: Starship Schematics Database: USS Ingram, Revised (http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/heavycruiser_ingram_up.jpg).

So - at least I know what direction Todd was leaning in when he revised his plans for the ship (or will do when the new set of blueprints show up).

aridas sofia

21st Dec 2006, 18:47

Starship

21st Dec 2006, 19:07

Just keep the version you´re building. It´s very cool. ;)
Of course, a version with 03 naceles would be cool too.

Jayru

21st Dec 2006, 19:28

That's the revised nacelle, Jayru. You'll see it in greater detail when you get the plans. The idea, if you recall, was that the transwarp nacelle was a failure. Thus the refit to a standard linear warp drive.

The smaller nacelles on these bigger ships was always a nod to how "slippery" these ships were in warped space -- very "warp dynamic". Thus they didn't need much more than a Constitution required in terms of warp propulsion.

I think one of the problems about the whole Transwarp Project thingy is that it was never stated that it was a failure (on screen that is) - it's just fan speculation. I've always wandered if actually the project was a success, and it's what led to the warp scale being changed. The may explain why the Enterprise-A was retired, as the ship would be very slow on the new warp scale. The term "transwarp" be missleading people into thinking it's something else, more along the lines of what we saw as "transwarp" in TNG. Remember - there was never any explination of what was so different about the Excelsiors new and improved drive system. Just my two-cents on that though ;)

It will be interesting to see Todd's revised plans - although I'm not likely to see them until after the new year has begun... No idea what impact they will have on this...

Just keep the version you´re building. It´s very cool. ;)
Of course, a version with 03 naceles would be cool too.

Thanks Starship, I am - for the time being, going to stick to the ideas I have for a late era TMP refit for this class, so have no fears! A three nacelle version... maybe that's something for me to consider after I have finished the ship off... although I am thinking of doing a the ST5 shuttle next, already have built a decent game model of it for ST Bridge Commander, but I have yet to see a version for max... or any other format actually!

Here's todays update - the original bridge module I did (yes, the errors on it make want to cry, still it was my first attempt at a TMP bridge - actually my first attempt at doing a bridge full stop) - based on the one for the refit connie, and (second pic) the version I plan to go ahead and use on this mesh... a combination of the refit connie design, and the excelsior bridge from ST6... expect to see windows at the back of it... as well as some other detailing as it not yet finished...

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

PS: has anyone else looked at the revised design pic, and thought it's in need of viagra?

aridas sofia

21st Dec 2006, 19:53

Jayru

22nd Dec 2006, 09:00

I'm sorry if I wasn't being clear, Jayru. I meant transwarp was a failure per the MastercoM writings, not that it was a failure per the movies (which follow a somewhat different course, as the differences between Ingram and Excelsior partly illustrate.)

No worries, I know what you were saying. The '86 plans state that the Transwarp project was a failure, and that the USS Excelsior (listed as "Ingram" class) was to be upgraded to the same specs as the USS Ingram. (Sorry, but I'm not going to pretend the movies and subsequent series never happened, and that the Ingram exits in it's own universe. Although interesting comment - "pretend" is what it all is... :lol:)

Of course, that never happened. The Excelsior went on to have some minor upgrades, and was sent into service looking pretty similar to how we first saw it.

The '96 plans prob do hold updated thoughts and info on the Transwarp project (no doubt still stating it was a failure), in spite of the lack of screen evidence and the like to back it up. It's a common assumption made by the bulk of Trek fans to explain away the Transwarp project, and the fact that it was never mentioned again - at least in relation to the Excelsior. Well, you know what they say about assumptions :D

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that maybe the project was a success and it led to the new warp scale. We know that happened at some point. We know that during the Enterprise's adventures in the original series the ship exceded warp 14 (on the old scale). We also know the ship wasn't designed to be able to operate at those speeds for long. Maybe the Excelsior was designed to operate at warp 10+ (on the old scale), and so hence "transwarp." Maybe this became such a common thing in later ships that the warp scale was changed, with a new impossible to reach top speed of warp 10 (ok, so I have no idea where warp 13 comes from in All Good Things...). It's as good an expliantion as any others, with the exception that in this case, the transwarp project was a success...

The Ingram class design was Todd's reaction/answer to the Excelsior, and his unhappiness with it. He made a statement in the '86 plans about the failure of the project, before the Excelsior was really seen in action. In his own way he was dismissing the Excelsior. Given fan reaction to the first sighting of the ship it's not hard to understand.

For the prupose of this mesh/project/whatever I am going to operate under the idea that both ships (Excelsior and Ingram) were built, and came out of the same project. For what ever reason the Excelsior went into mass production, and the Ingram was built in limited numbers. For the purpose of doing my own take on a refit version of the Ingram Class I think that's the best way to proceed. However, I won't be labeling this ship up as the USS Ingram, so that if people are more comfortable as seeing this as an Excelsior/Ingram variant - or "Ingram inspired" - that's fine :cool:.

With Tallguy working on an exact version of the Ingram (including the revised version eventually, as I understand from the thread on The Trek BBS), I don't feel guilty about spreading my wings and going in a different direction. I'm just going with the flow, and enjoying it... :thumb:

Jayru

22nd Dec 2006, 10:33

here's the finished - for the time being, new look deck 1/A deck/bridge module. I may - or may not - add windows to the back of it, as per what the Excelsior had in ST6. Or I may flatten it out, and put a docking collar back on there. Not sure yet. Regardless, it is a much chunkier looking module, so I have no qaulms about not including the tops of the tubolift shafts - becasue frankly you could fit an Excelsior style bridge in this thing, and rattle it around... yes, have moved the side lights so they are on the center line of the saucer (which they would not have been on the original one).

Anyhow, first pic is of the completed (for the time being) bridge, second and third pics are comparisons of the old and new look modules - last pic is just a beauty shot (well I think it's a beauty shot). C&C welcome as always :thumb:

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

harrisw

22nd Dec 2006, 13:36

Jayru

22nd Dec 2006, 14:32

I'm sorry, but the revised Ingram nacelles from the 1996 schematics are just wrong. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. They make the ship look off balance. When you look at an Excelsior class, you want long & slender, not short and stubby.
Keep going the way you're going, it looks great.

I plan too - and this is an Ingram Class Varient/Refit/Inspired Design ;) :thumb:

Not sure how much more I am going to be able to get done before I break for Christmas and new year - hopefully one more update at least... maybe a lighting test... hummm.... :cool:

Jayru

22nd Dec 2006, 17:29

Well, decided to leave this project on a high, as I wont have time to work on it over the Christmas Holiday - so rather than getting into anything too deep today I played around with a possible lighting set up for it. Nothing's final yet - have lots to finish on the mesh first before I need to seriously think about how to light it - but still I thought some of you might enjoy the pics...

Anyhow, thanks to all those who have taken time to post comments/feedback/suggestions. It all helps :thumb: I'll prob get back to working on this in the new year...

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Starscream

22nd Dec 2006, 17:42

Sweet!!!!

evil_genius_180

22nd Dec 2006, 18:23

The bridge looks great and those lighting shots are awesome. :thumb:

Jayru

24th Dec 2006, 19:55

@ Starscream & evil_genius_180 - thanks chaps! :thumb:

Not strickly speaking an update - but for those wandering how this "ship" compaires to the Constitution and Excelsior Class's - here ya go, some scale shots. I've used the saucer rim of each ship to make sure they are scaled right - in the case of the Ingram, the rim of the saucer should be the same height as the Connie's, in the case of the Excelsior the saucer rim should be slightly less the Connie's - although I'm not sure this makes the Excelsior the right length. From what I've gleamed from the net, it's one of those ships that's hard to scale properly... but the Connie and the Ingram should be right to each other. Yes, the Ingram is supposed to be longer than the Excelsior...

Credits are on the pics, but the Refit Connie is the S-Stephen max conversion of Dennis Russell Bailey's beautiful mesh - and, the Excelsior is by Igor Bremec.

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

The bad news is a friend of mine has been looking at the file, and found lots and lots of errors, some of which are causing a few problems when I open the file (well, we all knew I wasn't an experianced 3d artisit when i started doing this...). He's managed to sort some of them out for me, but I am going to have to rebuild the main body of the saucer, the engineering hull, and the neck if I'm going to get rid of the rest of the probs. Chalk it up to learning experiance on my part, and look out for updates in the new year when i get back to this. Hope you all enjoy the holiday season in the mean time :thumb:

evil_genius_180

24th Dec 2006, 20:39

Jayru

26th Dec 2006, 08:32

Your ship's a beast. Dimensions on the Excelsior-class length: 511.25m beam: 195.64m height: 86.76m (according to the DS9 tech manual.)

I really like that last shot. Your model really looks sweet flying with a couple of the best movie-era meshes in public release. :D

Cheers evil_genius_180 - I've found two sets of dimensions for the Excelsior, the DS9-Technical manual, and the "offical" Paramount set (which sets the length at 467 meters). From what I've read up on, either length (511.25/467) presents problems with the Excelsior design... The Excelsior in the picture is at the 467 (approx) mark.

The Ingram, according to it's blueprints, is supposed to be 590 meters long, Using the refit connie as a yard stick, so to speak (and becasue it's length of 305 meters is not disputed anywhere) I can work out that the above mesh is: 508.7 (approx) meters in length.... Bit out, yes? :o

** Edit: **
Two of the major things I changed when I started working on the mesh was the overall length of the engineering hull - which on the Ingram is lengthy, and the placement of the nacelles. Taken into consideration, this should explain the missing 80 or so meters. Mind you, as I am rebuilding parts of the mesh at some point, the length may well change....

evil_genius_180

26th Dec 2006, 18:42

I think the 511 was supposed to be the Ent-B refit, but it should only be a few meters longer than the original, not 44 meters longer.

Jayru

28th Dec 2006, 15:21

I think the 511 was supposed to be the Ent-B refit, but it should only be a few meters longer than the original, not 44 meters longer.

If memory serves the Enterprise-B/Lakota sub-class is supposed to be shorter, due to the fact the length of the secondary hull was decressed... but I could be wrong :thumb:

I'm more worried about the fact that I've managed to drop 80 meters from the overall length of the ship :confused: I need to rethink that.....

Jayru

4th Jan 2007, 16:46

Well, happy new year to you all...

I've finally gotten around to spending some more time on this "little" project. As things stood at the end of last year, I was left with the task of rebuilding parts of the mesh due to the fact I had built them wrong in the first place, and was getting file errors

I'd also taken the time to work out the relative scale of the mesh next to a refit connie, and shock horror had found I was some 80 meters short in length (and as girls often say, length matters....).

When I started working on this mesh I had the idea of doing a refit version of the ship, something that would fit in with the changes made to the Excelsior in ST6. In fairness to Todd, the Ingram design stands the test of time, even if it is 20+ years old. But in all likely hood if both ships were built (Excelsior and Ingram), then it stands to reason that they would have both been updated/upgraded. We know the Excelsior was not only built, but receaved a facelift. We know that the class went on to become the backbone of Starfleet for 100+ years to come... (don't get me started on that...).

So I had a rethink on what I am trying to do, and decided to start again, this time sticking closer to the plans. Sadly this meant rebuilding most of the mesh (and those fracking nacelles again) but we have a new beginning. So what do you call a mesh where you rebuild the engineering hull, the saucer, the dorsal connector, the nacelles, and the shuttle bay? Answer: a new mesh...

Here's a side by side comparrison of the old and the new - with a connie thrown in for scale (credit to Dennis Russel Baily, and S-Stephen for that):
http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)
The new version of the mesh is the one at the bottom of the pic ;) I managed to use about 10/15% of the old one on the rebuild, so it's not all new... but close enough!

In terms of scale, the new mesh mesaures up nicely, with an overall length of 588.4 meters. That works very well for me, given that I changed the way the fins sit on the nacelles, the refit should be shorter by a few meters (rather then 80+).

New orthos:
http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

As eagle eyed people will see, there are a few mesh errors to sort out - mainly on the "neck" (or dosal connector for those technically minded) but I plan to redo that bit anyway. I have both sets of plans now, but one thing neither set show is how the neck connects to the saucer. :rolleyes: I may move the enginnering hull forward slightly, so that the neck and saucer sit better together (I don't want to move the saucer as that would effect the ship length, although have no fears I will if I have to). Obviously I have to rebuild all that detaling back into the saucer... place the phaser banks... the shield grids... etc etc...

For those interested here are some scale shots with and Excelsior and Connie. Credits are on the pics, but the Refit Connie is the S-Stephen max conversion of Dennis Russell Bailey's beautiful mesh - and, the Excelsior is by Igor Bremec:

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Last but not least, some new beauty shots:
http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Obvioulsy Tallguys version is still the "accurate-to-plan-version," and mine is the "refit" version, but I think I have managed to capture more of the orginal lines of the Ingram with this new mesh... c&c welcome :thumb:

Starscream

4th Jan 2007, 17:53

Hmm, you see when I first realised you'd updated I thought "Yay, finally my patience over xmas has paid off!" and then I read what you've actually done during that time... :P

So, on with the crits this time (I do both, dontcha know :D )
1) How does this new sized saucer compare with the later Ambassador class? Is it more of a midway kind of scale or is it going to look a tad too big?
2) Again, on the saucer, or rather what it does to those nacelles: They look far too thin now, and it seems they need bringing forward slightly compared to where they currently sit on their pylons. See in particular pictures irp069.jpg through to irp071.jpg, and all of the ventral/dorsal orthos. I'd go with your idea of moving the entire engineering hull forward.

Apart from that, it does looks kinda better in some areas - especially how you've redone the dorsal interconnector hull.. thing. As a whole the forward half of the secondary hull just seems to "fly" better. Can't quite explain it, meh.
.
.
.
.
.
Actually, comparing the two versions my overall suggestion would be to add your Mk2 Engine Hull, Dorsal Connector and Nacelles to the Mk1 Saucer/Impulse Engine. Go on, try it! You know you want to!! :D

Jayru

4th Jan 2007, 20:18

Cheers for the c&c Starscream :thumb: It does help! Boy, you've made me think...

Hmm, you see when I first realised you'd updated I thought "Yay, finally my patience over xmas has paid off!" and then I read what you've actually done during that time... :P

Ok, yes, I know, it was very sucky being told that I had built 90% of the mesh wrong, and that I was going to have to redo bits of it, or get a higher spec PC. (Slapped wrist on my part, I should have listened to some advise before I began, could have saved myself the work). So yes, it was a sucky update :) :rolleyes: Litterally all I've managed to reuse from the old version of the mesh were the Bridge and B-deck sections - parts of the Impulse deck, parts of the Deflector array, the lower sensor dome and lights, the inner gubbings of the torpedo bays, the top part of the nacelles, mega-phaser cannons and the lower parts of the nacelle pylons. The rest is brand new... although I did make use of some parts as guides for creating new sections, such as the saucer.

So, on with the crits this time (I do both, dontcha know :D )
1) How does this new sized saucer compare with the later Ambassador class? Is it more of a midway kind of scale or is it going to look a tad too big?

Becasue I did a rebuild, rather then a rescale this is a hard one to answer - I believe the mesh increased in length/width 5-12% depending on the section. The listed length of the Ingram, in both sets of blue(and red)prints is 590meters. The listed length of the Ambassador is 526 meters, with the listed length of the Excelsior being 467 meters, so this is how they all compaire >>

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Obvioulsy the Excelsior and Ingram were designed several years before the Ambassador, and given the Ingram is a fan design - not offical (humm, should I duck next time I state that?) the Ambassador would have been designed to fit in with the Excelsior. Looking at that scale pic... I dunno. I see no reason why the Ingram's length shouldn't work.... what do you think?

2) Again, on the saucer, or rather what it does to those nacelles: They look far too thin now, and it seems they need bringing forward slightly compared to where they currently sit on their pylons. See in particular pictures irp069.jpg through to irp071.jpg, and all of the ventral/dorsal orthos. I'd go with your idea of moving the entire engineering hull forward.

Here's a link to a fairly accurate set of pictures of the original Ingram design >> Starship Schematics Database: USS Ingram (http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/heavycruiser_ingram.jpg). As you can see the Nacelles are supposed to sit quite far back - and be thin. However this is going to be a refit version, and I happen to agree that they do not look quite right, so I will play around with there placement on the engineering section. I've already increased the width of the nacelles - not as much as some people would like, but enough I think. I'm not happy about the saucer/neck/engineering hull placement. It's wrong to the plans becasue the saucer is ment to have a larger diameter then I have given it - seriously, the Ingrams saucer is very wide....

Apart from that, it does looks kinda better in some areas - especially how you've redone the dorsal interconnector hull.. thing. As a whole the forward half of the secondary hull just seems to "fly" better. Can't quite explain it, meh.

Cheers :thumb: The "neck" sucks big time in my opinion - but then I've seen it close up! It's going to be re-done, but will be pretty much the same shape. BTW, it's the original shape of the Ingram's neck, so I guess I should have stuck with that in the first place :rolleyes:
I managed to scan all the plans into my PC, so I'm able to use the actualy orthos as background images when working on the mesh. Hence the engineering hull is a lot more accurate - although I still went with a more streamlined look for it. But yes, I agree, it does "fly" better...

Actually, comparing the two versions my overall suggestion would be to add your Mk2 Engine Hull, Dorsal Connector and Nacelles to the Mk1 Saucer/Impulse Engine. Go on, try it! You know you want to!! :D

:lol: There will be no adding of any of the major "mk1" componants due to them being badly made, and causing file errors (my PC needed christmas to recover, and it's still upset that Santa never brought it an upgrade...) BUT, I could rescale the saucer to match the diameter of the old one and give your sugestion a go - mind you, I'm pretty sure I only increassed the diameter 5% in total on the saucer.
What I am thinking of doing is moving the whole nacelle/pylon assembly forward, bringing the saucer back and seeing how that looks. Obvioulsy I will loose out in length, but if we're not talking more then 15/20 meters I could live with that. It wouldn't be the first refit Trek ship to be shorter after a refit! Only downside of bringing the nacelles forward is that it will affect the forward part of the main shuttle bay, which is supposed to have to hatches on it. I could maybe live without them though. Let me have a play and see what I come up with...

:thumb:

Starscream

4th Jan 2007, 23:11

Cheers for the c&c Starscream :thumb: It does help! Boy, you've made me think...

Well, I try... :D

Litterally all I've managed to reuse from the old version of the mesh were the Bridge and B-deck sections - parts of the Impulse deck, parts of the Deflector array, the lower sensor dome and lights, the inner gubbings of the torpedo bays, the top part of the nacelles, mega-phaser cannons and the lower parts of the nacelle pylons.

Well, good: Because I liked those bits. Especially the Bridge and Impulse Deck. ;)

I see no reason why the Ingram's length shouldn't work.... what do you think?

I think that now you've gone and done this you ought to remake the Ambassador-class so that it's also longer and holds more resemblance to the original concept art by Probert. :flippy:

Seriously I do think it would hold up better with a little less length. I'm not saying it ought to look all bloaty like Excelsior ended up, but I think making it appear a tad shorter would give the appearance of a taller ship, and therefore echo more closely the dimensions of the Constitution (whose "aesthetic" the original Ingram blueprints were intended to emulate, IIRC). Don't feel you have to restrict yourself to those plans, but rather continue to improve upon the basic design as you already have been doing. :thumb:

I could rescale the saucer to match the diameter of the old one and give your sugestion a go - mind you, I'm pretty sure I only increassed the diameter 5% in total on the saucer.

DO IT DO IT DO IT!!! :D

What I am thinking of doing is moving the whole nacelle/pylon assembly forward, bringing the saucer back and seeing how that looks.

I'd suggest keeping the pylons where they are and resitting the nacelles themselves further forward - this will help eliminate some of the spindly appearance they currently hold. ;)

Anyway that's quite enough typing from me, this laptop-style keyboard is starting to drive me insane! I may be among the first (if not the first) to suffer from what will become known as Keyboard Rage in years to come... carry on!! :thumb:

Jayru

5th Jan 2007, 12:35

@ Starscream; Seriously the comments all help. :thumb: I do appriciate them....

Remake the Ambassador Class... :eek:

Actually I thought someone was already working on that, and making a version based on Proberts original artwork (or am I thinking of the pre-crash forum?). Pre doing this project, I used to work exclusivly in Milkshape making game models... examples of which can be found here (yes I am blowing my own trumpet - so there!) >> Example 1 (http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/file/Blakes_7_modpack;55799), Example 2 (http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/file/Type_3_Shuttle_from_STV;58133). This is very much new territory for me...

Actually I was thinking of building a high poly version of the shuttle from Star Trek 5 next... But lets see how much more insane this drives me...

**Edit**
Ok, on to the suggested changes, let me know what you think of this "rebalance" of the componante parts>>

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

I moved the nacelles forward (but left the pylons where they were), moved the saucer back, so it sits better on the neck - increased the width of the nacelles by 10% and there height by 5%. Ok, so they will prob not be chunky enough for some people out there, but as I have said before - I may as well add Excelsior nacelles to this ship if I make them that wide... Screw the offical length that the class is supposed to be, I'm not gonna worry about that any more, and just get on a finish this. Gonna get back to fixing the neck - well rebuilding it...

Starscream

5th Jan 2007, 18:20

Much better!

Jayru

5th Jan 2007, 22:18

:thumb:

evil_genius_180

6th Jan 2007, 06:21

I agree, it's much improved. I'm really lovin' this ship. :thumb:

Jayru

9th Jan 2007, 18:47

I agree, it's much improved. I'm really lovin' this ship. :thumb:

Thank you for that - makes me even more determined to finish it! :thumb: ;) :)

Well, the last few days I have been wraking my brain on how to fix the problems with the "dorsal interconnector" - "neck" for short. I really wanted to make it one peice - unlike what I did on the "mark1" which had the impulse engins as a seperat part. My first take on it did not turn out so well, and had some errors that try as I might I couldn't fix:

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

So, I went back and redid it, this time taking care to make sure I did the boolin on the cutaway curve part better:

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

New/Old together (new version on top):

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

As you can see I have made the neck a little bit longer, and deepened the curve on the back of the neck. I think this looks nicer. I've also made the sensor bay smaller on the new version - although I have yet to build in the detailing on that - or the impulse engins. But that's something for me to do tomorrow :thumb:

Starscream

9th Jan 2007, 23:59

Well I think this seems much improved, but I guess we'll know for sure when you show us a render of the whole kit & kaboodle! ;)

Jayru

10th Jan 2007, 02:35

Well I think this seems much improved, but I guess we'll know for sure when you show us a render of the whole kit & kaboodle! ;)

Trying to get the mesh errors out the way before I get into redetailing the mesh again... although I do plan to work on the Saucer tomorrow/today and start work on the details on that, such as the thrusters, phaser banks, shield grid, hatches, running lights etc etc...

Of course, that's dependant on whether I actually get to bed and get some sleep - I've just spent the last few hours detaling and lighting the Impulse Engins and the Sensor Array on the "neck" - pics of that some time later...

Like I say, I want to sort any small mesh errors out as they happen rather then leave them - got three on the stardrive hull to fix, and then I can get on with some more detailing work...

be a good idea to get some sleep first me thinks...

evil_genius_180

10th Jan 2007, 06:21

Sleep is over rated. :devil:

The new part looks great, though. I too try to rid myself of mesh errors when I'm modeling, so I feel your pain. It can be a real pain sometimes. :shiner:

Jayru

11th Jan 2007, 14:05

Sleep is over rated. :devil:

LOL - but that's all I did yesterday...

Jayru

11th Jan 2007, 15:08

As promised, here's some new renders with the revamped "neck." Still have some detailing work to do on it... but that's for later...

Close ups (so to speak):

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Side view and beauty shots:

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

For those interested, I added a couple of omni's to the impulse engins so that there glow will spill out onto the mesh... not in a big way, but enough to look like they are actually glowing, as opposed to just lit. Yes, the neck should sit that way on the stardrive hull - it's not supposed to be as wide as the engineering hull (yes I have played around with it, and I am "happier" with this). The detailing on the sensor array (on the neck) is a lot finer then on the "mk1" version. I'll spruce it up with some contrasting colours and textures later.

Next stop: error fixing on the Stardrive hull, and then detailing work on the saucer... after I re-learn my 7 times table (I'll explain later)...

Starscream

11th Jan 2007, 17:55

Yesss!!!!

Jayru

11th Jan 2007, 18:57

Yesss!!!!

I take it you like? :thumb:

Starscream

11th Jan 2007, 23:33

Well of course! ;) Unfortunately I was a little pushed for time - two hours gym every night really takes a bite outta your internet time...

My only suggestion at this very moment is to make sure you include more detailing around the edges of the.. sensor thingy on the dorsal (neck thingy) interconnector. Perhaps a rim of some kind, or maybe insetting the whole feature slightly would make it look less .. flat? Oh, and round the edges of the sensor grid... plates... fins... whatever at the back! :D

The proportions are definitely improved, I can't wait to see how you begin detailing this! :thumb:

evil_genius_180

12th Jan 2007, 06:01

Holy frack! That's awesome. The new neck really looks great, as does the whole ship. Did you get all of your mesh errors fixed? It looks pretty damn smooth. :flippy:

Jayru

12th Jan 2007, 14:20

My only suggestion at this very moment is to make sure you include more detailing around the edges of the.. sensor thingy on the dorsal (neck thingy) interconnector. Perhaps a rim of some kind, or maybe insetting the whole feature slightly would make it look less .. flat? Oh, and round the edges of the sensor grid... plates... fins... whatever at the back! :D

The proportions are definitely improved, I can't wait to see how you begin detailing this! :thumb:

Humm, the section is actually inset into the neck - although at that angle it might be difficult to show... will render up the componant parts of the neck later so you can see... neither set of plans I have show any other detail other then the "plates/fins" in the bay. I will make something up later, possibly make them slightly transparent and stick the sensor details behind them... Sounds like an idea ;)

The proportions are much better - I increassed the saucers diameter again, (obvioulsy I have left the bridge alone in all these sizes increases). I also made the engineering hull wider - which again, works very well. The plans don't show that much detail on the neck. However, that doesn't mean to say there wont be - in the end....

Holy frack! That's awesome. The new neck really looks great, as does the whole ship. Did you get all of your mesh errors fixed? It looks pretty damn smooth. :flippy:

:thumb:

LOL, I cheated and rendered up the side that doesn't have any errors - BUT I have fixed the major ones. There are some smaller, less noticable ones on the front of the engineering hull. Need to think about how to fix them - or never do a close up of them.... LOL

Working on the saucer detailing at the moment. Thruster bays are now built in, phaser banks are now built in (and they are to the right scale this time), and now I am thinking about the best way to re-do the shield grid.

I was wrong as well, I needed to brush up my 8 times table... damn my memory, the saucer has 160 segments, not 140... silly me... :rolleyes:

evil_genius_180

13th Jan 2007, 03:43

Need to think about how to fix them

Creative texturing. :flippy:

Jayru

13th Jan 2007, 12:37

Creative texturing. :flippy:

- or, rebuild that section and do better boolins.... (which has worked, no errors this time.... yippeeeeeeee - now back to work on the saucer....)

Jayru

15th Jan 2007, 15:07

Quick update:

Started detailing the saucer, and laying out the shield grid. Have gone for finer lines on the grid this time. Looks better, IMOO:

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Of course, have lots of other bits to do (thrusters, rest of the grid, running lights, windows, hatches etc etc).

More soon, C&C welcome :thumb:

Starscream

15th Jan 2007, 22:57

evil_genius_180

16th Jan 2007, 06:50

- or, rebuild that section and do better boolins.... (which has worked, no errors this time.... yippeeeeeeee - now back to work on the saucer....)

Yeah, that usually works too. I was actually joking about the texturing thing. :lol:

The saucer looks great so far. I like the grid lines. Are the stripes on the structure under the bridge modeled or textured?

Jayru

16th Jan 2007, 12:53

Looks all good here!

Going for thinner shield grid lines was definitely a good idea considering the size of this beast in relation to the Enterprise... thick lines would have undermined the impression of a much bigger ship that this model needs to give off. :thumb:

:thumb:

I quite agree. Keeping things to scale has been fun so far.... Should have the upper saucer done today, just need to redo the thruster bays (used the wrong mask to do that boolin... 30 minute job to fix...)

Yeah, that usually works too. I was actually joking about the texturing thing. :lol:

The saucer looks great so far. I like the grid lines. Are the stripes on the structure under the bridge modeled or textured?

Modeled :thumb: Have only used one texture map so far, and it shared by the Impulse Engins and Deflector dish (just a basic lighting mask). Every other detail is built in.

Jayru

16th Jan 2007, 17:25

Another quick update - (sucks I know, but I have not had a lot of time to spend on this recently... :mad:)

Finished the upper saucer - for now. Got the impulse flush vents done, and the rest of the upper saucer details built in (including the upper saucer hatches...). Running lights and thrusters are finished for the time bing too.

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Started work on the lower saucer, built in the phaser banks. Will start laying out the shield grid and other details tomorrow. Will finish the details on the saucer rim after I have that done :thumb:

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Yes, I know. At some point I need to add some textures to this mesh - want to get it mostly finished first!

evil_genius_180

18th Jan 2007, 06:38

Dr-Timelord

18th Jan 2007, 11:22

Even though this design is taken from the excelsior, will you be using one or two elements and design structures from the Refit?

Jayru

18th Jan 2007, 13:59

Dude, you can texture whenever the hell you want. I like to wait until I'm done modeling. I like your modeled lines. They should hold up better than a texture at close range.

Your details are looking great. I really like the thrusters and impulse deflection crystal. Excellent work. :D

:thumb: I've been lurking around on this forum for years, and have tried to pay attention to some of the better ways to make 3d models. Most people agree that the more detail you build in, the better the mesh. Who am I to argue?
I love the deflection crystal - it was accidental how it ended up looking, but it looked to cool to dump. LOL, it must be one of the few sections of the mesh I have not rebuilt... Of course, it has meant I have had to keep up that standard on the rest of the mesh... :eek:

Even though this design is taken from the excelsior, will you be using one or two elements and design structures from the Refit?

You mean the Enterprise-B/Lakota? I have played around with some ideas - haven't made my mind up yet on whether to use any of those ideas...

evil_genius_180

18th Jan 2007, 20:42

:thumb: I've been lurking around on this forum for years, and have tried to pay attention to some of the better ways to make 3d models. Most people agree that the more detail you build in, the better the mesh. Who am I to argue?

I agree about the modeled details and, up until a few months ago, I used to model all of my stripes and whatnot. But then I figured out how to texture with some success and realized it's a lot easier and quicker to change markings and whatnot by simply changing the textures. But, not everyone feels that way. It's really all about personal preference. :cool:

As I said in my previous post, your modeled stripes will hold up better at close range than a texture, unless you make really high quality maps, which will drag down your rendering time.

Jayru

19th Jan 2007, 08:38

LOL, that's going to be the next big challenge - texturing this monster. Still haven't figured out all the tricks on that - there will be crys of "help" when I get to that... I know some of the tricks for getting markings and such onto a mesh, but frankly it has been easier to build some of the detailing in, such as the red warning mark around the thrusters, the phaser banks etc etc. Once I get more experiance under my belt on texturing I'll work out more efficiant ways of doing things (or have the balls to ask people...) but that's way in the future at the moment. I need to finish this monster off first :devil:

Catch 22 isn't it? The more detail you build in, the more you slow down your render time. The bigger and higher detail the texture maps are, the more you slow down your render time.

evil_genius_180

19th Jan 2007, 08:45

Catch 22 isn't it? The more detail you build in, the more you slow down your render time. The bigger and higher detail the texture maps are, the more you slow down your render time.

Yeah, it's a bitch. Render times suck, no matter what you do. :(

Jayru

19th Jan 2007, 11:35

Yeah, it's a bitch. Render times suck, no matter what you do. :(

Mind you, it's a good excuse to upgrade the PC - well that's what I keep telling my partner...

Quick update for you all:

Lower saucer shield grid and hatches are now done. Would have been done yesterday, but I ballsed up the shield grid settings (written them down, so I WONT forget them this time...)

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Quick render of the Saucer top:

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

The weird blotch near the lower sensor thingy is to do with "lighting interaction" becasue of the multiple lights I have set up for the purpose of building this thing. It is not a mesh problem :thumb:

Next up, Saucer rim details and grid... which are going to have to wait until after we fix the fence in the back garden. Well find it. Bloody weather....

Starship

19th Jan 2007, 13:52

Coming along vey nice.
About what to add from Ent-B/Lakota, what do you mean about the aditional impulse engines ?

Jayru

19th Jan 2007, 18:09

Coming along vey nice.
About what to add from Ent-B/Lakota, what do you mean about the aditional impulse engines ?

Sorry, miss-understanding this perhaps - do you mean that you think the mesh would look better with additional impulse engins?

Jayru

19th Jan 2007, 20:26

Another quick update....

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Saucer rim and gangway hatches done (for now). Windows and other details will be done later... C&C welcome (as always).

This means I am back to where I was before I had to do the rebuild. Yippeeee!

Gonna take a few days break from this, as we have some storm damage to sort out... (fun fun fun). That and sorting the shield grid out was not as joyful an experiance as I thought it would be :devil: Need to rest my brain for a few days... Will prob lurk about on here, but don't expect any updates until next week guys...

Starship

20th Jan 2007, 17:04

Sorry, miss-understanding this perhaps - do you mean that you think the mesh would look better with additional impulse engins?

I was refering to post #76, where you wrote:
...You mean the Enterprise-B/Lakota? I have played around with some ideas - haven't made my mind up yet on whether to use any of those ideas...

So, my suggestion was to add the aditional impulse engines. It's your decision, but I would give it a try ;) Anyway, the ship is great without the additional engines, don't worry ! :)

Jayru

20th Jan 2007, 17:43

I was refering to post #76

No problem Starship - understand now :thumb:

I had intended to keep the lines of the ship as close to the original design as possible. That, and I never really understood why the Enterprise-B needed 4 impulse engins. I know why they made the changes they did to the Excelsior model in ST:Generations, but I'm not sure all of them really work from an astestics point of view :runs:

Mind you, it wouldn't hurt to play around with some ideas - but first I'm going to get the shield grid done on the seconday hull, and then work out where all the windows are going to go... (which I suppose means I should work out the deck layout :eek: )

Jayru

23rd Jan 2007, 16:28

Small update:

Back to work on this mesh again. Have started building up the detail on the Secondary Hull prior to laying out the shield grid. Spent this afternoon working on the secondary shuttle bay:

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Not much to see at the moment - but more to come.

evil_genius_180

23rd Jan 2007, 23:48

Looks great so far. :thumb:

Starship

24th Jan 2007, 01:08

Nice !

Jayru

29th Jan 2007, 00:53

Sorry for the lack of updates recently, had a major fault on my PC - which hopefully has been resolved. The mesh is safe and sound, and is backuped to our server. All things being well I should be back at work on this this week :thumb:

regemet

15th Feb 2007, 06:12

Nice could you possibly do an Ingram Connie excelsior ambassador class comparison diagram

Jayru

15th Feb 2007, 15:14

Nice could you possibly do an Ingram Connie excelsior ambassador class comparison diagram

At the moment I am still trying to sort out a major problem on my PC, so until I get it back, I'm afraid this project is on hold.

Comparison pics should (still) be up on the "page 5" of this thread - one set showing the refit-Connie, Excelsior and refit-Ingram - the second set showing the Ambassador, Excelsior, refit-Ingram.

:thumb:

evil_genius_180

15th Feb 2007, 15:17

That sucks. What sort of problem are you having with your PC?

Jayru

15th Feb 2007, 17:33

Starscream

16th Feb 2007, 00:27

Dammit, I thought for a moment you'd updated! :mad: ;)

Hope everything gets sorted soon (although more for my sake realy, since I've quite missed this thread) :D

evil_genius_180

16th Feb 2007, 17:07

Thought it was a harddrive problem, but it looks like it may be the mother board. Pain in the backside sorting it out.

Fortunatly everything is backed up to our server, so when I get my machine back, it wont take me long to get going again.

Good luck. I know how hard it can be sometimes to get computer problems sorted out. :rolleyes: Hope you get it fixed soon.

Jayru

17th Apr 2007, 12:29

Hiya all,

Had a few private messages about what's happened to this mesh, and why I stopped working on it.

1: I had a major fault on my PC, which took time and money to sort out, once solved -

2: Our ISP decided to play silly buggers with us, and we were unable to get back online for a time. We get that sorted and then -

3: We find out that we have to move house.

So, things are on hold with this project until further notice. Fingers crossed the house move goes smoothly, and life settles down enough for me to get back into this later this year.

Starship

21st Apr 2007, 23:55

Good luck with your house move. ;)

Jayru

26th Sep 2007, 18:51

Ok, it's been what? 4 months since I last posted anything to do with this project - thought it was time I got back to work on it.

Our problems with our ISP were sorted out thanks to CISAS, and we got a nice bit of compensation as well - I guess we wont be using Pipex again...

House move went well, and it's weird living in a place I actually own (well, co-own with someone). My days of rented properties, and slum landlords are behind me.

Can't claim my PC woes are over. Someone thought Norton360 would be a good idea for my PC. Isn't. It's like trying to move through jam.

Anyhoo, back on subject - have got back to work on this mesh. After 4 months away from it was interesting to see some things that I thought I'd finished, but needed more work on. Once again this ship has new nacelles, and a new neck as well. Starting to build up the detailing on the Secondary Hull - got the sensor bay built in, and have mapped out the shield grid (that's tomorrows task, PC willing).

Here's the latest render to wet your appitites (if you still have them for this project, LOL);

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

I suppose I need to start thinking about a name for this ship as well. Submissions would be greatfully receaved... :thumb:

More, very very soon (like tomorrow!)

Starship

26th Sep 2007, 21:24

It´s already the time my friend... Welcome on board again!;)

evil_genius_180

27th Sep 2007, 05:36

Jayru

27th Sep 2007, 09:24

It´s already the time my friend... Welcome on board again!;)

'tis about time I got back to this! Yesterday, it was a year to the day since I started doing this mesh... I got caught up writing (my other passion) and - *gasp* selling some of my work ;) - still not made enough to give up my "day job" just yet, (and those who know me will know what a joke that is... :lol:). That, and I want to finish this ship?/mesh? - project!

It's great to see you back again and back to work. Sounds like you've had some good and bad times. Sorry to hear about the PC woes. Norton anything is absolutely horrible. Anytime I've gotten a new PC with that garbage installed, I usually yank it off first thing. (before it can mess stuff up.)

The new nacelles and neck really look great. :thumb:

Welcome back. :D

Yes. Norton. :mad:

My partner thinks its a wonderful wonderful thing, and wont hear a word against it. I think it sucks. Doing anything on my PC takes about twice as long whilst N360 decides on whether you are allowed to do it... and the number of times I've had to use there support desk... :mad:

Have been told I need a new faster PC. Strange, I got one of them after the crash happened this year, and I need to replace it again? I think not. I'm not made of money, and I would like to get at least 18 months out of this puppy first.

LOL, the "new nacelles" aren't that new - just rounded the front ends off more, and rebuilt the cowling so that it now sits properly in the middle. Basic stuff I should have done in the first place :fishslap: Doesn;t look so crap close up now (I'll get some shots to show what I mean ;) )

Yep, new neck again. Needed to replace the sensor bay, and I couldn't access my old save files (Norton wont allow me access to my own network. Aparently it puts my PC at risk "of accessing data." The Norton360 disks and Mr Sledgehammer are meeting this weekend...).

Have mapped out where most of the shield grid and other details are going on the secondary hull, so am gonna work on that today.

Also thinking ahead to what to do next (or when my brain starts to foam from doing this one);

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

The pics are of a mod I did for the Star Trek: Bridge Commander game - the Star Trek 5 shuttle. Did a low poly, low detail one for the game, and then started working on a higher detail, higher poly version. Should go nicely with the refit Ingram when done.

:mad: Some "person" has already ported the BC mod over to max and started using it, (I know for a fact the readme I put on that mod asked people not to port/convert it with out contacting me first... hell, the readme is up on the BCFiles website for all to see...). Little annoyed that this version is out there in cyberspace as a max mesh (although at least it has my name attached to it - had to point that out to the person who ported it over, it's my work and mesh, and proper credit is due). Feel the need to get the proper version out, if only to make the point that people should have the balls to ask first, becasue I would have said yes, and gone one better and sent him what I had done on the high-poly max version :flippy:

Ok, rant over. This mesh first, shuttle second....

More later.

Jayru

27th Sep 2007, 11:28

As promised, some snaps of "sorted" nacelles.

As you can see the cowling wasn't sitting right between the top and bottom half of the old nacelle housing;
http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

So I rebuilt it;
http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

More later - work on the secondary hull continues - but alas it is time for me to go to the gym and try and make myself look fit and beautiful. Well, fit anyway...

Jayru

27th Sep 2007, 15:43

More Updates:

Have started detaling work on the Secondary Hull. Doesn't look like I've done much today - but trust me, fitting in the shield grid around the thruster bays, docking hatches, and pylons was, well, I suppose fun is a word I could use :confused:

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Have some more minor details to add to finish this section off, some detaling work on the sensor bays, and the warning marks around the hatches. After that am starting work on the main part of the shield grid next (don't wanna say tomorrow in case I don't get the chance). Got the grid layed out - I think, but I remember how much fun I had with the saucer.

Next update as soon as I can. I have a funny feeling that things are about to get complicated... :lol: :thumb:

Must also stop triple posting as well... it's not like I can't do a single update... :lol:

As always, C&C welcome.

Jayru

28th Sep 2007, 14:32

Secondary Hull shield grid is now on - after two attempts. Helps to remember the settings I used before.

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Rest of the lower hulls shield grid and details going on next. More updates, as and when.

C&C welcome, as are any suggestions for names :thumb:

Darkstone

28th Sep 2007, 19:20

Gridlines? Fun? :lol:

Outstanding work.

Starscream

28th Sep 2007, 19:24

I for one would have loved for this to have been the Enterprise-A (don't get me wrong, I adore the Constitution-class; I just thought that scrapping her within, what, 8-10 years? of her supposed refit/upgrade was a bit crap!)

So yeah, I'd have liked this as an Ent. Not sure how it might affect the evolution to the E-D, but one can dream...

Nice to have you back btw, Jayru. I'd been missing this one! ;)

Jayru

28th Sep 2007, 23:25

Gridlines? Fun? :lol:

Outstanding work.

Yeessssss.... and I have more of them to do :eek:

Personally I think doing the windows is going to be even more "fun" - especially as I have decided to model rooms in behind them (which may qualify me for this years insanity award, given I have never done anything quite like this before. Game models are one thing, high res models are a different kettle-of-fishes all together :lol:) ;) Thanks.

I for one would have loved for this to have been the Enterprise-A (don't get me wrong, I adore the Constitution-class; I just thought that scrapping her within, what, 8-10 years? of her supposed refit/upgrade was a bit crap!)

So yeah, I'd have liked this as an Ent. Not sure how it might affect the evolution to the E-D, but one can dream...

Nice to have you back btw, Jayru. I'd been missing this one! ;)

I love the Constitution class - especially the refit version. Classy ship, with a classy look. My fav all time Trek ship :thumb:

Didn't Roddenburry once state that the Ent-A was actually a re-named USS York Town? Hence why they could get away with retiring it so quickly?

The Ingram Class is BIG. Makes the Excelsior class look tiny. I agree, it would have been a good class for an "Enterprise." One of the attractions to the design for me was that it was more kin to the Constitution class, and looked like a more natural evolution then how the Excelsior ended up looking. I could see this design evolving into the Ambassador, and then the Galaxy with out too much trouble.

My personal take on the Ingram class is that if they existed, then due to the size of them only a dozen or so were built and sent out, where as the Excelsior class was produced in greater numbers. The Ingrams are more like old fashioned dreadnoughts - larger ships with heavier armerment. Heck, the original plans listed the ship as having "assult craft/fighters" as well. I've tried to go for a more balanced feel with a re-fit design, and give the ship a more multi-purpose feel, although still retaining the heavy combat role. I'm trying to aim for a classy look and feel. Remains to be seen if I'll get there :lol:

Is TallGuy still doing the accurate version of the Ingram? Have to admit I haven't checked up recently. Be nice to compaire the two when they are done. Wonder what Todd will think of what I have done with his design :(

Yes, it's nice to be back! Fingers crossed nothing else goes wrong... :D

Been thinking about what name to stick on this ship. Not gonna call it the Ingram because it's far removed from the original design, and also TallGuy is working on the actual Ingram. The other half had a few ideas - which I'll throw on to this thread to see what people think;

Atlantis
Zanadu
Victory
Odysseus or Odyssey

The reg is going to be something along the lines of NCC-26XX (ok, I'll replace the "x's" later, :lol:)

Thinking that if I do a release (although that's a while off yet), I'll make more then one set of reg tags avalible. Also debating the merits of a full public release at the moment, given that I can't even keep tabs on the game mods/meshes I do :rolleyes: Any thoughts, comments, two-pence, would be greatfully mulled over at the moment :thumb:

XRaiderV1.7

29th Sep 2007, 01:06

Im gone for 2 weeks and this thread progresses soo bloody far, guess i learned my lesson, lol, keep up the great work.

XRaiderV1.7

29th Sep 2007, 01:22

It's great to see you back again and back to work. Sounds like you've had some good and bad times. Sorry to hear about the PC woes. Norton anything is absolutely horrible. Anytime I've gotten a new PC with that garbage installed, I usually yank it off first thing. (before it can mess stuff up.)

The new nacelles and neck really look great. :thumb:

Welcome back. :D

its called thats what trash cans are for, things like norton, aint worth the code its compiled from, by the time I 86'd it, it had stopped being willing to autoupdate on its own, loading the update by hand was, to be frank, like having teeth pulled, you have to go several pages in, then to another site altogether, then redirect back, but that was in 2002, im not sure about now though.

I suggest a free antivirus scanner like grisoft's AVG free edition*, they do make several different pay versions though, and i also reccommend spybot sd, lavasoft's adaware*, spywareblaster*, and a decent free firewall, like zone labs zone alarm*, If you have a preference for something better in terms of internet security programs, be my guest.
these programs are easy to set-up and use

(*free versions of these programs, spybot sd is completely free)

i give this advice to friends and family as well.

Jayru

29th Sep 2007, 02:18

Thanks for the heads up XRaider - was using a set of decent programs - but the otherhalf just had to install norton across the network... didn't even ask if I was ok with it... I'd withhold sex in protest, but I would just be "cutting my own nose off..." :rolleyes:

LOL, ok, yes a lot has happened with this project in the last couple of days - but then the thread was dormant for what? 4/5 months. Thought it was about time to get back to work on this... will try to keep updates a bit more consistant this time :thumb: AND finish the bloomen' thing ;) If my brain starts to foam, I have some other 3d projects to show here... some Trek, some original...

Dr-Timelord

29th Sep 2007, 09:58

I really like the design take on this ship, it does looks like the sleaker offshoot of the excelsior class :) i like the Nacelles

Jayru

30th Sep 2007, 09:03

Some small updates - sorry guys (and gals?) but weekends tend to be busy with doing other things... like hill walking in Derbyshire. I think my partner is trying to kill me :lol:

Anyhow, have started work on the ventral part of the shield grid, and added some more detail to the secondary hull;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

@ Dr Timelord - thank you!

Although, this ship is still a monster when you compair it to the Excelsior (ships shown to scale);

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Darkstone

30th Sep 2007, 09:38

She's trying to kill you so she can have Norton installed on every computer. :o

:D

Wow, so she is how long? ~700m? Could we see a size comparison with the Galaxy? :)

Great job.

XRaiderV1.7

30th Sep 2007, 11:46

god, im not too sure my monitor could or would take THAT kind of abuse, lol

Jayru

30th Sep 2007, 18:57

She's trying to kill you so she can have Norton installed on every computer. :o

:D

Wow, so she is how long? ~700m? Could we see a size comparison with the Galaxy? :)

Great job.

Actually it's he, not she ;) And he may be trying to kill me, but I'm the one who can run up the mountains, and leave him gasping for breath... :flippy: so I'm not worried just yet. I'm 22 pounds down since we started this diet/lifestyle change thing, which I am very happy about...

As for the Galaxy siz comp - no, can't do it. Why? Don't have a Galaxy Class mesh, :lol: - I'll see if I can find one, and knock up some pics later. Length wise the ship is somewhere between the 560-600 meter mark. I keep moving the saucer and nacelles about, so I can't say for certain at the mo. If you look at page 5 of this thread there are some renders of it next to an Ambassador class - if that helps ;)

My bad, but I scaled the Excelsior wrong in the pics I did earlier - so here's some new ones (with DRBs Connie - which I have been using to scale the ship to);

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

god, im not too sure my monitor could or would take THAT kind of abuse, lol

Tell me about it, my PC is still sparking from rendering that lot up. Haven't optimised the Ingram mesh yet, and so far ALL the detail is built in (not done via texture maps) so the files size is about 12megs, and building... :thumb:

XRaiderV1.7

1st Oct 2007, 00:06

yikes, lol

Jayru

1st Oct 2007, 01:39

Wow, so she is how long?

Ok, can answer that one now - guess you got me curious about that too, LOL;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

If I don't dick around with the configuration, then she's 579 meters long. That's one meter shy of the listed length for the Ingram class, and I can live with the difference because this is meant to be a refit version (or Ingram "inspired" if you prefer). I have a rough deck plan so I can line up windows and hatches etc etc - so I know the ship has 23 decks, 4 of which have non standard heights (in one case nearly double height, but again that's consistant with Todds plans, and meant to be the Engineering level). The rim of the saucer is 2 decks, like the Connies (and it's the same height too).

For no other reason then I like it, and I've no other input (hint hint everybody), I'm gonna stick the name "USS Odysseus" on her, with a reg of "NCC-2147" - unless I get a better suggestion or idea :thumb:

Back to work on this tomorrow, and finishing work on the shield grid and secondary hull details... if I get time before going into hospital (woops did I mention I'm not gonna be able to work on this much this week?) I'll start work on the grid details on the nacelles ;)

BolianAdmiral

1st Oct 2007, 01:54

Dr-Timelord

1st Oct 2007, 04:55

Wow i always pictured this ship maybe slightly smaller than the excelsior class.

Somewhere inbetween Constitution Reft and Excelsior class

darkthunder

1st Oct 2007, 05:30

Would be awesome seeing this ship in Bridge Commander at some point :D

Jayru

1st Oct 2007, 10:46

This is just awesome... I just began to explore this thread, and I have to say you've done a beautiful job with a great ship. The Ingram-Class plans were the first set of Star Trek blueprints I ever owned, and I still have them. Great job on this ship... she's a beaut. :D

she is coming along nicely at the moment, and I haven't had to scream for help - yet. Tallguy is doing (or was) an accurate to the plans version of this ship - but I have plans for this mesh. So there are going to be two versions, the one I release, and the one I am going to use - which will have a different name, and number on it. That may be the one I build the rooms into as well, becasue the file size is getting out of hand... may need some advice on that...

Wow i always pictured this ship maybe slightly smaller than the excelsior class.

Somewhere inbetween Constitution Reft and Excelsior class

I know what you mean - The first set of Ingram plans (the blue set) have some comp pictures of the Ingram next to the refit Enterprise (no bloody A, B, C, D, E - or NX) - and she's every inch the moster size vessel. The Excelsior looks small against her - IF you use the "offical" listed length for her. Personally whilst I like the Excelsior, I don't think they ever thought about how big/small she was supposed to be, and so scaling her to look right against the Connie is problematic.
If you look at the first post in this thread there is a link to an online set of the blueprints, which shows the original Ingram to scale next to a Connie.
LOL, that I've managed to keep to within a meter of the given length for the Ingram Class is funny, because I think I said sometime ago I wasn't going to bother to worry about that any more.

Would be awesome seeing this ship in Bridge Commander at some point :D

that's a possibilty given that I do BC Mods :thumb: - AND I have been thinking about that myself.
If you go to BC-Files (http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/) you'll find some mods by me on there ;) I use the same handle on there - "jayru," so I should be easy enough to find. Failing that, do a search for "liberator" on there, one of my ship packs should come up...
As to when... have to wait until I get the ship done first ;-)
There is a kitbash of an Excelsior on there, done up to look like an Ingram - not that good (or accurate - or done by me I should add). But there is something there to play around with.

**UPDATE** - LOL, :lol: just had a look at the length data on the blueprints, and the Ingram is supposed to be 590 meters long, so I'm 11 meters shy at the moment. I could move the nacelles back - or I could just shrug my shoulders and say "it's different becasue it's a refit" - think I'll go with that idea, less work :thumb:

Starship

1st Oct 2007, 18:23

Based upon this top view http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp111.jpg, I suggest you to make the naceles a little more fat, instead of thin like they are now.;) Maybe the same can be applyed to the sec hull.;)

BolianAdmiral

2nd Oct 2007, 04:30

^

Well, the Ingram-Class plans DO have the nacelles being that thin... I know we're not used to seeing such thin nacelles, but that's the way this ship is.

evil_genius_180

2nd Oct 2007, 06:09

Great work. I like the detailed bits. I always love it when you do the comparison shots with the Excelsior and Enterprise. It's definitely a huge ship. :thumb:

JDR

2nd Oct 2007, 08:30

The Excelsior looks small against her - IF you use the "offical" listed length for her. Personally whilst I like the Excelsior, I don't think they ever thought about how big/small she was supposed to be, and so scaling her to look right against the Connie is problematic.

Actually, the Excelsior's size does make sense for the most part - I looked very carefully at this issue when I modelled it, and it mostly makes perfect sense at its stated size - especially the Star Trek III version. The bridge module on that is large enough to squeeze a standard movie-era bridge in. The Star Trek VI version's bridge module is a bit small though. Probably why I prefer the original version. The bridge scale issue is iffy at best, but the deck layout and window positions are completely plausible.

Jayru

2nd Oct 2007, 08:51

@ Starship - The Saucer/Secondary Hull ratio is spot on for the Ingram Class - and one of the things I wanted to keep. I have actually made the nacelles wider than they are on the plans - because they didn't look right, and becasue so many people have concerns about them...
I'm not done with the nacelles yet. Someone emailed me to point out that if this ship is a late 23rd century refit that the nacelles might have a lot in common with what we saw on the Enterprise-B. That's a good argument, and I am thinking about possible options. However, in order to keep the feel of the Ingram Class - rather then making the ship more like an oversized Excelsior Class (which it is not supposed to be), I am going to leave the width of the nacelles as they are at the moment, and leave the saucer/secondary hull ratio alone :thumb:

@ BolianAdmiral - Yes I know - took me a while to get used to it, and I did think that I would simply emulate the style of nacelle that the Excelsior has - BUT, this is meant to be a different class of ship, and use different drive technologies.
According to the info supplied with the blueprints the Ingram and the Excelsior designs were built differently in order to test two different "transwarp" systems. I've made my thoughts clear on the whole "Excelsior Transwarp drive must have failed" idea before (there is no screen evidence that says it did, and a lot to say that it was a success - hence the development of a new warp speed ratio used in TNG, becasue ships were able to travel faster). I think the name "transwarp" has always been a little missleading when it comes to the Excelsior.
I have tried to keep to the design style on the blueprints when it comes to this ships nacelles - but as I say, I'm not done with them yet...

@ evil_genius_180 - LOL, I nearly blew my PC up rendering those pics. DRBs connie is not a small mesh... not too sure I'll be doing too many of them in future, but you never know - maybe when I get my first cheque for the book I sold, I'll treat myself to a new pc...

@ JDR - yep, I do see what you mean about the layout of the Excelsior. I guess the FX people have always tried to make the ship look bigger than it actually is, not that it isn't a big ship, but it was more on par with the Connie then most people think.

Re more updates: - Sucks, but I had to rebuild the shield grid on the secondary hull. When I was working on it yesterday, I noticed a few problems, and I also noticed that the forward oval of the grid didn't follow the line of the deflector bay, so have re-done all that (and it was "fun" once again). Should get time to do some more work on it before I go into hospital today, but if you don't hear any more from me today then I guess not. Everything going well I should be back tomorrow night - and if it doesn't go well, well then I guess you'll hear from me when you hear from me :(

Starship

2nd Oct 2007, 14:20

Hope the best for your mom. ;)
Just take your time.

Jayru

2nd Oct 2007, 15:41

Cheers Starship :thumb: - although actually it's me that's got the appointment ;) One of the joys of being disabled is that ammount of time you get to spend in hospitals, being waited on hand and foot :lol:

Anyhoo - last update until I get back (fingers crossed for tomorrow); the (insert appropriate expletive here) shield grid on the engineering hull is doing my head in. I think I have it sorted, bar one or two easy to fix problems. But I've like rebuilt it the damn thing 8/9 times now :mad:

At least the forward oval looks right though....

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Ok being yelled at becasue we're late. More soon....

evil_genius_180

2nd Oct 2007, 18:28

I love the work you're doing on this. The only thing that bugs me is the plain white exhaust ports for the RCS thrusters. I'd like to see more done with those, but that's just me being picky. ;)

@ evil_genius_180 - LOL, I nearly blew my PC up rendering those pics. DRBs connie is not a small mesh... not too sure I'll be doing too many of them in future, but you never know - maybe when I get my first cheque for the book I sold, I'll treat myself to a new pc...

You rendered those at the same time?! Good gravy. I'd have rendered them separately with the same setup and then composited them together. (that's how you do it with a crappy PC, I have one of those myself.)

XRaiderV1.7

3rd Oct 2007, 00:16

patience, maybe thats gonna be in the next update, you never know

Dr-Timelord

3rd Oct 2007, 01:23

I like how this is evolving.

Its good that you've gone with a late 23rd Century design, i think it look a little weird with TNG era style nacelles

Lt.Carter

3rd Oct 2007, 03:57

You can tell already, this is going to be an awesome ship when finished.
Hope you don't mind but i did a quick paste to show that scale to the Ent-D.
Image of comparison - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting (http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p115/LtCarterScn/Evolution/?action=view&current=irp110a.jpg)

Jayru

3rd Oct 2007, 08:59

XRaiderV1.7

3rd Oct 2007, 11:04

Mornin' all,

I've been let out early because of bad behaviour (LOL, my plan worked, they let me out early :D) - and on the condition I don't do to much. Yeah right... :p like that's gonna stop me :lol:

@ evil_genius_180 & XRaiderV1.7 - Yes, the RCS thruster design sucks - BUT it is consistant with the TMP style for ships. Actually looking at the Enterprise and the Excelsior, the only "lit" thruster ports were those on the saucer and the nacelles. The rest were dark. I may be persauded to make all of them dark... or re-think how the exhaust ports actually look. Any ideas would be greatfully receaved, after all this is still a wip, and I am anal enough to keep every save file on this proj (as of yesterday I am up to "irp379.max"), so I can go back and change things if need be...
My pc isn't exactly top of the line, by todays standards its crappy, but it does the job (sometimes with me swearing at it a lot, or threatening to introduce it to Mr Sledgehammer).

@ Dr-Timelord - Ok, so I have to admit, I do like the style and feel of the TMP ships. It's a much cleaner and classier look then any other era of Trek, IMOO. LOL, my next "public" project will be a TMP one as well - after that, I think I'll show you guys something created in the better lit areas of my imagination... a retro-take on a very advanced starship... :cool:

@ Lt.Carter - Thank you kind sir, and no I do not mind at all - thank you kindly for doing that! :thumb: If anyone can point me in the direction of a decent Galaxy Class mesh, I would be greatful.

Ok, back to work on the (insert expletive here) shield grid... Can you tell how much I am enjoying that bit at the moment?

My pc isn't exactly top of the line, by todays standards its crappy, but it does the job (sometimes with me swearing at it a lot, or threatening to introduce it to Mr Sledgehammer)------------- you dont say, well then, welcome to the club, mine is exactly the same way, only, its not a sledgehammer I threaten mine with, my trick involves grabbing it by its power cord, swinging it around and around above my head, going 'whee, what a frakking breeze!' and letting fly if you will.

cant do that, for obvious reasons, so I usually settle for threatening to tear its guts out part by part, lol.

computers, cant live with em, cant avoid em, period, eh?

not that i dont like computers, i mean, im almost always on mine day after day, but sometimes, I just cant shake the feeling of wanting to introduce mine to the business end of MR. shotgun, lol.

being honest about the thrusters, so please dont take offense,
as to the thrusters, something other than an uninteresting block of yellow is kinda needed, at least give em more detail, make em visually interesting if you will.

Starship

3rd Oct 2007, 12:37

... If anyone can point me in the direction of a decent Galaxy Class mesh, I would be greatful.

The best ones public available, are from Ralph Schobert and Tom Bijl (Cooper).
You can get both here: STAR TREK AUSTRALIA.com: The Un-official AUSTRALIAN Star Trek Site (http://www.startrekmeshes.com/) ;) For may taste, Cooper´s mesh is the better.

Exists a perfect mesh for max built by Nico Weigand too, but it was released just to some lucky guys, unhappyness...:(

Jayru

3rd Oct 2007, 12:44

being honest about the thrusters, so please dont take offense,
as to the thrusters, something other than an uninteresting block of yellow is kinda needed, at least give em more detail, make em visually interesting if you will.

No offense taken ;) I quite agree that I need to do something - the question is what? I don't want to radically change the look and make them more TNG (becasue that wont fit with what I'm doing), on the other hand, they do look kind of dull. I spent a lot of time looking at the first 6 Trek films to get a handle on the look of certains details on TMP ships. The RCS thursters were simply that dull, just blocks of yellowish light.

Humm, maybe a texture of some kind (which will be later on, when I get that far) - or maybe build in even more detail? LOL Suggestions welcome at this stage, as is C&C. Can't claime I will always act on what people suggest, but I will consider it, and look it in context of what I am trying to do :thumb: Hence the reason why I have stuck to my guns on the nacelle width, and the saucer/engineering hull ratio. I may be doing a refit version of the Ingram Class - but I am trying to keep close to what Todd designed ;)

:lol: as for my PC, aside from various threats, I tend to find just placing the sledgehammer near it works sometimes. Ok, yes. I know. It's just a pc, it's not alive, threats and "Mr Sledghammer" make no difference what so ever. But they don't half make you feel better, LOL. I'm married? partnered? hitched? civil partnered? (not sure what the exact correct term is these days) to an IT manager, so I tend to get my hands on a lot of good quality PC parts at trade prices. My current frankenstien is pretty good, but lacks enough memory (which is on my shopping list). My big gripe is that he put Norton on the home network, and also my machine, and it's running 1000 times slower then normal as a result.

I'll give the idea of some details to the thrusters more thought... just finished the rest of the secondary hulls shield grid (party time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Have a few errors to fix, and then I can render it up for ya all.

Jayru

3rd Oct 2007, 12:50

The best ones public available, are from Ralph Schobert and Tom Bijl (Cooper).
You can get both here: STAR TREK AUSTRALIA.com: The Un-official AUSTRALIAN Star Trek Site (http://www.startrekmeshes.com/) ;) For may taste, Cooper´s mesh is the better.

Exists a perfect mesh for max built by Nico Weigand too, but it was released just to some lucky guys, unhappyness...:(

Sorry to double post guys and gals, but when the hell did STA come back on to the net? (Let me guess, my invitation got lost in the post again...) Nice to see it back.

Thanks for the link Starship - have downloaded it, and will see if I can sort out some comp pics of the Galaxy and my mesh later on...

Dr-Timelord

3rd Oct 2007, 16:22

It kinda just picked up where it left off, all the reallly old meshes are still there

Jayru

3rd Oct 2007, 16:41

Ok, finally an update or three....

Have finished the (insert expletive here) shield grid for the secondary hull. Still a few minor bugs to sort out (yes I know one or two of them can be seen in the pics), but I've had enough of it today, so moving on to other things (like the TV). Anyhow, aside from a few minor things, the secondary hull is done. No, I have not worked on the top part of it, because I need to finalise the main shuttle bay before I do ;)

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

I based the grid design on what's on the blueprints for the Ingram. Yep, could have gone in a very different direction - and given that I added aft torpedos to the ship, and removed one of the shuttlebays, I guess I have - kind of :lol: But it's still pretty consistant to what the ship should have.

Please note: I am never doing a shield grid again. Next time I'll happily pay someone else to have the headache, :eek: . Ok, maybe I will do it again. Just not for a while to come...

Here's the latest orthos (as I haven't done a set in a while);

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

To date I am still only using the one texture map - and that's shared between the impulse engines, deflector dish and the impulse crystral thingy on the saucer... Must start thinking about texture maps at some stage :rolleyes:

Now, have we all been good children today? I hope so, because in my need to do anything but the shield grid I rendered up some wireframe shots of this beast... enjoy....

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

More soon after my brain stops foaming.

Jayru

3rd Oct 2007, 20:37

With a tip of the hat to Lt.Carter, and thanks to Starship (for the link) here are the Galaxy comparison pics...

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

May have just about hit what my PC is able to do with those two renders :eek: - so I wont be doing any more like that. More work on the ship tomorrow... After I get the rest of detail work done on the secondary hull, I think it will be time to start work on the main hanger bay...

Gonna have to start culling images from this thread as well. My hosting space is big - but not so big that I can keep putting imgaes like this on it forever ;)

VALKYRIE013

3rd Oct 2007, 23:19

i'm liking this.. keep it up..

Dr-Timelord

4th Oct 2007, 02:45

Those nacelles make up for more than 2/3rds of the length of the ship, there huge! lol

Starscream

4th Oct 2007, 08:01

I agree, they are indeed most mahooossive. More problematic though I think is their proportion still. (sorry Jayru!)

If they were to be widened say an extra 20% to the port and starboard, and at the same time increased in height an extra .. um 10% through the radiator grills, this would solve two problems I can see:
1) is where the radiators themselves appear to have less height than either the Constitution or Excelsior classes (and so seems a bit backward if you know what I mean), and
2) is where the ventral and dorsal profiles appear a bit interrupted in terms of flow. Currently, the point at which the pylons angle upward is visible from the upper and lower plan views. If you widen the nacelles a little more to allow this to be covered / obscured, the whole design might flow more smoothly from bow-stern.

Sorry to be the voice of dissent here! If I can do up a quick photomash jobby later I'll post it up to show what I mean...

Done:

Jayru

4th Oct 2007, 09:16

Morning all,

Just for you all to see;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

This are pics of the original USS Ingram NCC-2001.

As you can see, amoungst the many design changes I have made, are as follows;

I have reduced the length of the secondary hull, and given it a more gracful curve at the forward end (well all round). This has meant that the the saucer and neck were pushed back further into the ship, and the nacelles had to be moved to accomodate. In previous posts I had the nacelles further back on the hull - but I was persauded to bring them forward as many people felt they looked wrong - and I agreed, the did look wrong. I combated some of the loss of length to the ship by changing how the saucer/neck come together, which I think works very well at the moment.

I have increased the width & height of the nacelles from the original design, and at the request of many I lowered them, so they sit more behind the saucer then as per the original plans. This meant scrapping the "flow sensors" which were built into the lower forward part of the nacelles - but I may have other ways of doing them...

I have redesigned the nacelle pylon supports, and brought the mega-phaser cannons into them, as opposed to be on outrigging. The current nacelle pylons are not the final design for the ship, and were one of the first elements that I built. I am currently reviewing a suggestion to make use of more of the original pylon design for this ship. Pics and posts on that to follow ;)

I have designed new mega-phaser cannons more in-keeping with what was seen on screen on the Miranda Class. That design is final (well, as final as anything is at the moment with this WIP).

I have removed the lower aft shuttle/cargo bay, and replaced it with two aft torpedo launchers (an increase from 0 to 2).

I have decressed the number of forward torpedo launchers from 3 to 2.

I have increased the number of phaser banks carried on the ship, from 11 double banks (22 emittors) to 14 banks, or 28 emittors. Due to the change I made with the torpedo launchers, I have increased the number carried by this ship from 3 to 4.

I have designed a new bridge - which at some point I will finish with the addition of windows at the back of it, in an attempt to emulate some of the design ideas from the Excelsior's new look bridge unit from Star Trek VI.

I have yet to do any serious work on the main shuttle bay, but it will only have one aft access to it - unlike the one aft and two fore as per the original Ingram. I am thinking this ship will not carry fighter squadrons either (again the Ingram does) Currently it does not "sit" right on the ship, IMOO - but the current object in place is only a place holder, and it may well be one of the final elements I get to work on.

The Ingram is listed as being 590.5 meters long, the refit version I am working on is short by 11.5 meters, and is currently 579 meters long, which is subject to change at the moment.

I have tried to preserve the saucer/secondary hull/nacelle ratio as much as possible, so as to keep the ship from looking like an oversized Excelsior (which I would perfer it not to be, and it could so easily become that).

According to the data provided with first set of (blue) blueprints for the Ingram Class, the ship made use of a different type of technology to achive what Starfleet of the day dubbed "transwarp" - hence the different nacelle design to the Excelsior. (If I may add some of my own thoughts here; ) As both ships came out of the same project, they share many of the same lines - although where as the Excelsior was more a new Heavy Cruiser to replace the Constitution Class, the Ingram would fill the role of "Space Control Ship" (not my term, Todds), in other words be a dreadnought.

If I can do up a quick photomash jobby later I'll post it up to show what I mean...

Cheers, it would be helpful :thumb: If you need a clean image without my background image blurb let me know - those I have pleanty of at the moment ;)

**Additional**

LOL, Starscream, you were a little quicker off the mark than I thought you would be on getting a pic up.

OK, have had a look, taken a copy of it - and will think about what you're suggesting.
I am trying very hard to keep away from making this beast look like an oversized Exceslior Class - which is one of the reasons I have shyed away from using the saucer/secondary hull/nacelle porportions used by the Excelsior... BUT I do appricate peoples concerns.
The question is, how far do I want to get away from the Ingram design ethos? Should I simply put it to one side and look upon this project as an oversized Excelsior? I think it may well be unavoidable.
Lots to mull over on this. Be interesting to see other peoples comments on it.

XRaiderV1.7

4th Oct 2007, 10:07

i do believe you may be right, she does look like an oversized excelsior.

its probably too far inti the design process, but, perhaps 4 nacelles, instead of 2?

Jayru

4th Oct 2007, 10:58

I meant to put this up yesterday - but forgot. The deck layout, as the ship currently stands;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Created this so I would know where to put the windows and hatches ;) Although, yes, I agree, it doesn't always matter. But sometimes it's nice to be logical about these things.

i do believe you may be right, she does look like an oversized excelsior.

Kind of what I was trying to avoid :(

its probably too far inti the design process, but, perhaps 4 nacelles, instead of 2?

Possibly, maybe... I'll add it to the list of things to mull over ;) Although, it would have serious design consequnces...

Seriously guys and gals, am opening this up to the floor; Should I abandon the current nacelle design in favour of something more akin to what the Excelsior has, or carry on as I am?

XRaiderV1.7

4th Oct 2007, 11:19

sorry, just calling it as I see it, hope you arent upset with my earlier observation.

Jayru

4th Oct 2007, 11:50

sorry, just calling it as I see it, hope you arent upset with my earlier observation.

Naaaaaaaaaaa, maybe a teeny-weeny bit dissapointed, but I'm a big boy, I can take ;) And if I wasn't interested, I wouldn't have gone public with what I'm doing in the first place - C&C is always welcome :thumb:

I am serious about peoples thoughts on this though, becasue it has become the point made most frequently - and I do plan to release this beast publically one day.

Jayru

4th Oct 2007, 13:15

Not that I am ignoring everyones comments re the nacelles - but I'm waiting for more feedback before I make my mind up about what I am going to do with them. Still, need to keep going on this mesh - so here's some "small" updates.

Pretty much finished the detail work on the secondary hull. I still have the docking hatches to work on, and that's something for later today. Have added some cargo hatches, finally got the warning marks around the docking hatches (and got that part of the shield grid done), rebuilt the forward sensor bays (they needed to be redone), and added the lower formation light & thruster unit;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Still sorting out errors on the shield grid. Guess that bit of fun is going to be long lasting... either that, or I'm going to have develop selective sight where it's concerned, LOL.

More as and when.

Starship

4th Oct 2007, 13:37

Since you´re asking for opinions, here it goes... :D
I´m not favorable to put four naceles... The design isn´t balanced for this. It´ll make her to appears just as a kitbash.;)
Keep two naceles or, if you´re thinking about to make a change, then consider a maximum of 3 naceles. In this case, the last nacele must be mounted over the dome that sits between the atual naceles. ;)

If you´re really bored about she looks like an oversized Excelsior, you can do some small changes without change the design that much, and still fits her as a TMP ship. As a refit, these changes are perfectly acceptable:
- Change the impulse house a bit (you can get ideas from the Excelsior´s bridge concept-Pic attached), and place impulses to the side, like the one´s from Ent-B.
- Change the naceles a bit (you can get ideas from the Excelsior´s concept-Pic attached)
- Painting schema with elements from Ent-C

Therefore, isn´t mandatory for you to make any change. I like of what you have done until now. You already put some details that makes her not appears exactly as an oversized Excelsior. ;)

Just keep in mind one thing: have fun! It´s what really matters at the end.:thumb:

Jayru

4th Oct 2007, 14:24

Hiya Starship;

Cheers for the pics ;) Always good to get more ref pics :thumb:

I still have a lot of work to do on this mesh. She's maybe 35-40% complete as things stand, there's a lot more detail to go on to it yet... and then there's textures as well :eek:

One of the problems with the Ingram is that she is always going to be the big almost-twin of the Excelsior. So there is no getting round that - but it's not that big a deal :cool:

I think a lot of people haven't seen the original Ingram plans, and so therefore it's hard to get a handle on the look of the ship. Heck, I had to wait until I got both sets of plans before I got a real feel for what Todd had designed, becasue the pictures that are up on the net don't really do the ship justice.

The porportions take a little getting used to - but, and this is just my personal opinon, I think the Ingram is a beautiful ship. It's a nice merging of elements from the Constitution & Excelsior Class's. In many respects it feels like a more logical evolution from the Constitution design (thin nacelles and all).

I wanted to try an remain as respectful as I could to what Todd designed - rather than depart from it all together - but this is a refit, so I guess I can get away with some major departures. I know there are purests out there who will be getting the pitch-forks and torches ready now that I've said that (I know that there are a few people who are NOT happy that I am not sticking 100% to Todds plans). But, live and let live. Tallguy is working on the uber acurate version (or was), so I feel no guilt in going down my own path with this ship, and doing something different.

That, and I have plans for this mesh :D - but more on that another time...

Therefore, isn´t mandatory for you to make any change. I like of what you have done until now. You already put some details that makes her not appears exactly as an oversized Excelsior. ;)

:thumb:

Still gonna mull over the nacelle design. There might be another way of doing things...

Oh, yes, I have culled about 90 odd images from this thread - sorry guys and gals, but I've posted some 140 odd images, and we have a lot of hosting space, but it is being used for other things as well... so everything before I restarted this project recently is gone ;) I still have the old images, so if need be I can always put them up (somewhere else) if people really need to see them

Starscream

4th Oct 2007, 17:03

LOL, Starscream, you were a little quicker off the mark than I thought you would be on getting a pic up.

Well, it's like Captain Kirk (apparently) always said: If something's that important you make the time! :D

OK, have had a look, taken a copy of it - and will think about what you're suggesting.
I am trying very hard to keep away from making this beast look like an oversized Exceslior Class - which is one of the reasons I have shyed away from using the saucer/secondary hull/nacelle porportions used by the Excelsior... BUT I do appricate peoples concerns.
The question is, how far do I want to get away from the Ingram design ethos? Should I simply put it to one side and look upon this project as an oversized Excelsior? I think it may well be unavoidable.
Lots to mull over on this. Be interesting to see other peoples comments on it.

I don't think she does look like an "oversized" Excelsior. If anything I see her as a more refined, concurrent design - where the Excelsior itself was clearly a testbed ship (as evidenced by the lack of design sense across much of the ship!).

As far as the nacelles are concerned, I may have chopped them into being a little too thick from the dorsal view. I also took the liberty of shortening them both by a coil section each, so that adds to the visual effect. If I'd done that first, I probably would have left them a wee bit thinner. ;)

In any case, I wouldn't suggest doing anything too extreme in terms of changing their design - the aesthetic suits the ship as-is. :thumb: Certainly their proportions from the forward view should remain the same, as it echoes the Connie refit better.

And I definitely do not condone the idea of sticking on an extra couple of nacelles. What is this, fan-wank-o-rama?! :lol:

Dr-Timelord

4th Oct 2007, 17:04

If I can do up a quick photomash jobby later I'll post it up to show what I mean...

That sounds soooooo wrong to a scotsman, or anyone who follows billy connolly

evil_genius_180

4th Oct 2007, 18:13

Nice work on the rear of the ship. :thumb: I like your version of the ship much better than the original Ingram.

Jayru

4th Oct 2007, 20:10

I'm gonna think about some ideas with the nacelles. LOL, thought I's finished with them... :rolleyes: Still, I'm a perfectionist, so I'll still be dicking around with this mesh this time next year no doubt :devil: Naaaa, hopefully I'll have it finished before then...

But seriously, I am going to play around with some ideas regarding the nacelles. Stay tooned for more on that.

Nice work on the rear of the ship. :thumb: I like your version of the ship much better than the original Ingram.

I've not strayed too far from the plans actually - when it comes to the secondary hull. Fair enough, I did do away with one of the shuttle bays (three shuttle bays on a ship this size is a little excessive I think), and replaced them with cargo bay doors (which was a last moment addition I have to say, wasn't going to bother with them, but thought what the hell - does mean that the MSD I started on this ship will have to change :rolleyes: - again). Also means a rethink on what the purpose of the second shuttle bay is for - I'd planned to mark it up as the cargo bay access - something more to play around with... Hummmmm, unless I get a good enough reason to keep them, the crago bay doors are gonna change to become something else... not to well thought out (and I am trying to think about stuff on this mesh, like I say, I want to keep it fairly logical design wise). Something else might end up in that section, LOL.

Have finished up the docking hatches on the enginnering hull (do you really want pictures of them? I have them if you guys want), and sorted out all but 1 of 67 errors made by creating that shield grid. Next time I'm doing it as a texture. The saucer grid was a breeze by comparrison.... probubly did it wrong, but like hey - this is my first non-game mesh, bound to screw up somewhere... :devil:

And I definitely do not condone the idea of sticking on an extra couple of nacelles. What is this, fan-wank-o-rama?!

Hell yeah!

LOL.

Well, this is a fan-boy ship... :thumb:

Not too stuck on the idea of adding more nacelles to this ship. As was pointed out earlier I am too far into the design to radically change it. But like, you never know.... I could be persauded, even bribed. Chocolate always works, as does flattery as well... :p

Starship

4th Oct 2007, 22:16

I'm gonna think about some ideas with the nacelles. LOL, thought I's finished with them... :rolleyes: Still, I'm a perfectionist, so I'll still be dicking around with this mesh this time next year no doubt :devil: Naaaa, hopefully I'll have it finished before then...

But seriously, I am going to play around with some ideas regarding the nacelles. Stay tooned for more on that.

I've not strayed too far from the plans actually - when it comes to the secondary hull. Fair enough, I did do away with one of the shuttle bays (three shuttle bays on a ship this size is a little excessive I think), and replaced them with cargo bay doors (which was a last moment addition I have to say, wasn't going to bother with them, but thought what the hell - does mean that the MSD I started on this ship will have to change :rolleyes: - again). Also means a rethink on what the purpose of the second shuttle bay is for - I'd planned to mark it up as the cargo bay access - something more to play around with... Hummmmm, unless I get a good enough reason to keep them, the crago bay doors are gonna change to become something else... not to well thought out (and I am trying to think about stuff on this mesh, like I say, I want to keep it fairly logical design wise). Something else might end up in that section, LOL.

Have finished up the docking hatches on the enginnering hull (do you really want pictures of them? I have them if you guys want), and sorted out all but 1 of 67 errors made by creating that shield grid. Next time I'm doing it as a texture. The saucer grid was a breeze by comparrison.... probubly did it wrong, but like hey - this is my first non-game mesh, bound to screw up somewhere... :devil:

Hell yeah!

LOL.

Well, this is a fan-boy ship... :thumb:

Not too stuck on the idea of adding more nacelles to this ship. As was pointed out earlier I am too far into the design to radically change it. But like, you never know.... I could be persauded, even bribed. Chocolate always works, as does flattery as well... :p

Hey, you´re a funny and nice guy.:lol:

Jayru

4th Oct 2007, 23:15

Hey, you´re a funny and nice guy.:lol:

Thank you :thumb:

You should see me in the early hours of the morning. I can be a real moody evil git then :devil:

I'm doing this for fun (well and for a project, but that's fun too). If I start taking it toooo seriously, then I need to be put out to pasture. Or shot. Or given chocolate. Which ever is easiest :D

Here's a quick snap of one of the finished docking ports. Still have two of them to build into the back of the neck :eek: Should be fun doing that... LOL

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Dr-Timelord

4th Oct 2007, 23:44

Interesting place to have them, but i supposer there isnt really anywhere else

evil_genius_180

5th Oct 2007, 06:06

I've not strayed too far from the plans actually - when it comes to the secondary hull.

I really meant I like the overall ship better than the original. Though part of it could be just seeing it in 3D instead of a schematic. It looks great, though. :thumb:

XRaiderV1.7

5th Oct 2007, 08:19

Well, it's like Captain Kirk (apparently) always said: If something's that important you make the time! :D

I don't think she does look like an "oversized" Excelsior. If anything I see her as a more refined, concurrent design - where the Excelsior itself was clearly a testbed ship (as evidenced by the lack of design sense across much of the ship!).

As far as the nacelles are concerned, I may have chopped them into being a little too thick from the dorsal view. I also took the liberty of shortening them both by a coil section each, so that adds to the visual effect. If I'd done that first, I probably would have left them a wee bit thinner. ;)

In any case, I wouldn't suggest doing anything too extreme in terms of changing their design - the aesthetic suits the ship as-is. :thumb: Certainly their proportions from the forward view should remain the same, as it echoes the Connie refit better.

And I definitely do not condone the idea of sticking on an extra couple of nacelles. What is this, fan-wank-o-rama?! :lol:

for the record, starscream, I was the one who suggested the idea of more nacelles, and Jayru doesnt have to follow my suggestion, or yours either, its his mesh, and I only made the suggestion, both because ive kinda wanted to see an ingram class with 4 nacelles for some time now, and to give Jayru a way out, should he decide he wants to go in a different direction with the ingram class.

Jayru, keep up the excellent work, loving every pixal of this ship.

and, you succeeded in rekindling what had been a waning interest in startrek, and for that, im thankful.

Jayru

5th Oct 2007, 08:28

Interesting place to have them, but i supposer there isnt really anywhere else

Well... they are on the blueprints, and it breaks that line up quite nicely ;) Actually, aside from the side view showing them, you cannot see what they are like from the top and back views becasue the rest of the ship gets in the way... so I guess it's free hand time in what they look like - or even over the number. I mean, is there just the one, or two of them? hard to tell from a side view. I guess it's play around with ideas time... Could always follow the blueprints and put a docking port at the back of the bridge - but I would prefer to put something else there... like windows...

I really meant I like the overall ship better than the original. Though part of it could be just seeing it in 3D instead of a schematic. It looks great, though. :thumb:

Cheers :thumb: Kind of why I was looking forward to seeing Tallguys uber accurate version of the ship, I think once you see it in 3d, it kind of all comes together rather nicely :) I've had an image of what this ship could be, fixed in my head for a while.

Weird really, I've never liked the Excelsior Class, never liked the shape of it. This seems to sit better with me. Go figure.

Actually, I wonder what Todd would think of what I have done to his baby :eek: Not sure I have the bottle to ask...

Ok, it's deffinatly too early in the morning for me, becasue I am beginning to waffle on. More soon, hell, a proper update soon...

Starscream

5th Oct 2007, 12:42

Jayru

5th Oct 2007, 15:22

for the record, starscream, I was the one who suggested the idea of more nacelles, and Jayru doesnt have to follow my suggestion, or yours either, its his mesh, and I only made the suggestion, both because ive kinda wanted to see an ingram class with 4 nacelles for some time now, and to give Jayru a way out, should he decide he wants to go in a different direction with the ingram class.

Jayru, keep up the excellent work, loving every pixal of this ship.

and, you succeeded in rekindling what had been a waning interest in startrek, and for that, im thankful.

Woops missed this message this morning when replying to this thread... :rolleyes: Must learn to read all the messages before posting...

I'm well aware of where the suggestion came from, and generally I have no issue with seeing four-nacelled starships - as long as they're well-balanced. With this hull design, such balance would be extremely difficult to achieve -if not impossible- without the whole thing looking like the kitbashed offspring of an Excelsior and a Prometheus (ie, the sort of things you see in the Starship Schematic Database). Between that and the suggestion of a three-nacelled variant, I think I have every reason to invoke the term fan-w@nk!

I certainly don't expect Jayru to follow my suggestions, as he has stated that he welcomes all input; and there's every likelyhood that someone here will come up with a more sound, logical or aesthetically pleasing idea. My only expectation, in fact, would be that he continues to use the good sense he has so far already - as evidenced by the images he has continued to release, and which have been met favourably by all those observing.

I've not said no to the idea of adding more nacelles to the ship - or for that matter changing anything about the mesh. Yes, I am far into the design, but like I have 500+ save files for this project - I can go back quite far and change things if I wish ;) I'm not in a rush to finish it, I am happy to take my time and get it right - even if it means redoing that shield grid again...

There is always the possibilty of doing a varient to the design, or using the componant parts to make something else all together. I can see how four nacelles could be used on this design, without screwing it over... to coin a phrase "there are always possibilties..."

Ideas are always welcome. Although to the person who emailed me with the name suggestion of "George W Bush" - NO. Not a chance in hell. But aside from that, yep, I'm open to ideas about this project. But as I have said before, I have an idea of where I want to go with this ship - I've had the image fixed in my minds eye for over a year now, and it remains to be seen if I achive what I see in my mind. So I will listen, and consider ideas - I may even act on them, but please do not be offended if I choose to go my own way on this. I'm not 100% sure where I am going with this, but that's what makes it fun :D

The Ingram is not an offical ship, but a fan designed one - a well designed fan one, with very good blueprints (and redprints for that matter). So this is a fan-boy ship. Certainly my "take" on it is fanish, so I guess this mesh is a fan-boy one as well :lol:, but hey that's ok, fan ships can be kind of cool :cool:

So please, do not stop suggesting ideas, or making comments. I may not always like them - BUT I am big enough and (I've seen a recent picture of myself) ugly enough to take it. I am a novice modder, this is my first proper mesh (aside from the half dozen I've done for the Bridge Commander game, but they were all v low poly and v low detail). Frankly I need the C&C, or how else will I learn? And this is a good place to learn.

Ok, todays meger updates;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Was not happy about the addition of the cargo hatches, - so they are gone. Replaced by another set of "thin plates" (Todds term, not mine).

Have been a bit lazy today (well, aside from the hour of tai-chi, and the half hour walk...) and only managed to do the following;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Yep it's all built into the mesh. Still only the one texture map in use for the deflector/crystal/impulse glow...

Ok, fine you can have some close ups;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

BTW - did I mention I was working on my project version of the mesh first? :devil: The set of name and number tags on the mesh currently are the ones I am going to be using. The public release will have a different name and number, (because I'm allowed to have my own personal ship, so there, LOL - naa, as I keep saying, it's for a project... Personal ship, yeah right - I have something far more original for that:p)

PS: XRaiderV1.7, Star Trek lives! Glad I could help remind you of that :thumb:

VALKYRIE013

5th Oct 2007, 16:32

loving it.. looks good

2cvbloke

5th Oct 2007, 16:50

To me, the name looks a bit too small on top of the saucer, so you'd need a good set of binoculars to see what ship it is when approaching it... :D

It's a very very nice ship, like a refined Excelsior design... :)

Jayru

5th Oct 2007, 17:16

Thanks VALKYRIE013. Love what you are doing with your Excelsior project, BTW.

To me, the name looks a bit too small on top of the saucer, so you'd need a good set of binoculars to see what ship it is when approaching it... :D

Yep, 'tis small. Like it is on the plans :thumb:

It's a very very nice ship, like a refined Excelsior design... :)

See rest of thread for more on that ;)

Started playing around with the ships spot lights, and guess what? found more errors on the engineering hull. :( I'd cry, but some people might think I'm a whimp. The bloody shield grid....

XRaiderV1.7

5th Oct 2007, 17:31

Learn as you go, something familiar to 2d modelers too.

hope this ship continues to turn out well.

Jayru

5th Oct 2007, 17:34

Learn as you go, something familiar to 2d modelers too.

hope this ship continues to turn out well.

Thank you.

Please keep giving me C&C, and any suggestions as well. The final design of this ship is not set in stone by any means.... :thumb:

Starscream

5th Oct 2007, 18:33

Ideas are always welcome. Although to the person who emailed me with the name suggestion of "George W Bush" - NO. Not a chance in hell.

Aww, but I like that name!
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No, no! I'm kidding! I'd never suggest something like that!!

* adds it to the list of personal no-nos: along with three nacelles, Genesis Torpedo launchers, multiphasic-hyperwarp slipstream drives and giant rubber duckies in the shuttlebay *

:D

Edit:
Forgot to mention this but the other day I was thinking I really like your background image Jayru - very reminiscent of TOS, although for some reason I can't put my finger on...

Jayru

5th Oct 2007, 20:09

Aww, but I like that name!
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No, no! I'm kidding! I'd never suggest something like that!!

* adds it to the list of personal no-nos: along with three nacelles, Genesis Torpedo launchers, multiphasic-hyperwarp slipstream drives and giant rubber duckies in the shuttlebay *

:D

Edit:
Forgot to mention this but the other day I was thinking I really like your background image Jayru - very reminiscent of TOS, although for some reason I can't put my finger on...

:o

:lol:

Yes, was a bit surprised when I got the email - but there you go. Some people still think he's the best thing since sliced bread (I guess you can tell I don't). Ok, enough politics. This is a thread about a starship...

multiphasic-hyperwarp slipstream drives

I like that idea, I may have to use that... seriously. Not on this ship, but on the other one (BTW, did I mention that I have three of them to build? - at least the other two are my own designs ;) )

giant rubber duckies

LOL, remind me to twll you about the red-ballon, and bull horns one day... that was one weird ship, but fun non-the less...

Ahh, yes, my background image... created in PaintShop Pro 8 one day whilst I was pissing about with it... I see what you mean. I think maybe it the retro 60's feel?

Ok, now for the news;

It's the weekend, so wont be doing much work on this mesh. According to the other half, I have a life, and I must go out and live it at weekends :( I guess that told me, LOL. Given he's got next week off, I wont do as much work on the ship. (He takes a week off work, so I have to take a week off from everything I do - partners, what can you do?)

Worse news;

I keep going on about mesh erros on the secondary hull, caused when I created the shield grid. Ok, so you can't really see most of them, and here's the reason why; I use a series of spot light placed at equal distant possitions to flood light the mesh, so it renders up all nice and pretty. Only problem with that is that it can sometimes hide mesh problems becasue the damn thing is too well lit.

I had a look at the secondary hull using just the standrad lighting in max, and it looks, well, crap. I am going to have to rebuild that grid yet again. Not happy about it, and not sure what I am going to do if the current idea to build it fails. so I may well be crying out for help.

When I created the grid on the saucer I used the existed lines and polys already on it - selected a load of polys, extruded them a teeny ammount, and the beveled them slightly, then hid them. Repeated the proccess until I was left the with grid which I seperated out. Ok, not sure that was the best way to do it, but the saucer grid is sound, and has no erros on it.

The secondary hull was problimatic. PLeanty of vertical lines, but no true horizontal ones becasue of the shape I used to make it (it started life as a sphere) - so I boolened in the lines, basically cutting in what I needed - and then did what I did on the saucer.

With me so far?

Ok, this proccess should have worked fine, and looked as if it did - but it crapped out. I've been told the reason it may have done so is becasue the secondary hull is more curved shape, and is also more poly intensive then the saucer. I have been advised to go back to the drawing board, and seperate each section out and create the grid bit by bit. No worries, I can do that (have already started sperating the hull into the panneled sections...)

If that fails not sure where to go from there...

I'll keep you guys posted, becasue this has become a major sticking point with finishing this mesh, and I am seriously beginning to develope feelings of dislike for it.

Any suggestions or bright ideas would be very welcome at this stage....

More as and when

MadKoiFish

5th Oct 2007, 20:46

yeah but was sliced bread all that great? I mean it goes bad faster. . . ;p
Ship naming I would aways stick with places or cultural names.

The tos feel I can bet is attributed to the hex pattern and the washes of colour which are trademark TOS things. >_>
I am glad to see you sticking to your guns here. The original is meaningful and should be followed within reason. It wouldnt be a refit if you didnt. >_ btw loving th echanges you have made EXP the flow around the neck and secondary hull.

As for your grid woes let us know what methods your using. I would keep your WIP lighting simple say a sky for ambient and a few spots. (of varying colours) these often help you spot mesh errors quickly.
I have a basic tut on my site Tutorials The madFish Way! (http://www.madfishway.rr.nu)
avoid the clay render types since those hide mesh errors quite well.
Stick with area shadows and make sure the ambient settings in the enviroment tab are set to BLACK.

I dunno what ver of max you have, if its a recent copy can we get some screen caps with "hidden line" turned on (this creates a black wire with grey faces so it culls the backfacing. Easier to see what is a edge or isnt. (maxs wireframe mode will often meld or double faces)
Something along these lines:
http://www.madfishway.rr.nu/sfmstuff-junk/LR-wire-03.png

In the end I can bet you can manage to get those grids in without rebuilding. I do have to say the wires are a bit heavy. Cutting curved edges across a tube is the hardest to avoid errors though. Try cutting across between the edges since those are making the curve of the hull. If you cut between and extrude etc this wont affect the curve. But again I need to see some clearer wires.

Jayru

6th Oct 2007, 11:18

Wouldn't know, I can't eat bread :(

The name is for the project - the public release - well, I did ask what you guys wanted, and aside from the one name I've mentioned, not a peep... so Odysseus it will be... Guardian is for something else... :devil:

But yes, was tempted to maybe draw on some of the varied cultures for the name... which in it's self is a mixed bag. English, Irish and Cherokee... Believe me, I could have had a lot of fun.... (still can, the name is not set in stone...)

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

The tutorials on your site will be of great help! Actually they already have been. And the advice has been a big help as well.

I have version 8 of Max, and I can't find any "hidden line" render option or setting. Ok, so maybe I'm being thick (wouldn't be the first time, or even the first time with Max). IF it's something I can do in Max v8 I'd appriate a dummies guide on how to do it... :thumb:

Unfortunatly, when I built the grid into the mesh I screwed up. I never saw the errors created by the boolin cuts, and made them worse when I did the extrude and bevel bit. OK, can see them now (and I know that the last "uncut" version of the enginering hull is save file 342). My bad - I should have done the forward oval and aft curve cuts first - and detached them! That's where 99% of the problems are (were). I forgot that Max doesn't like cutting curved lines into a mesh, found that out the hard way when I started this project :rolleyes:

So I am going to see if I can cut the lins in cleaner this time. So Secondary Hull Shield Grid - Take 10....

MadKoiFish

6th Oct 2007, 11:30

Go to the upper left corner of any Viewport and right click the text (perspective top left etc) then choose other.

boolean is prolly part of the issue it might be easier to manualy cut those grids. or use the connect command in edge mode. It will connect parrell edges together I dont remember if 8 has the slide and pinch options. If not youll have to do multiple segments to get your edge where you want it then remove the extra edges. Ok, yeah max 8 has the pinch and slide but doesnt have the hidden line option. Only other option is smooth with highlights and show edges.

NOW if you have a older hull but have work on other parts you can merge in that old object and detach parts and weld them in. Sorta like patching a hole in the wall or patching holes in paper etc.

MKF-

Jayru

6th Oct 2007, 12:33

Cheers MadKoiFish :thumb:

Already started work on it again before I saw you latest bit of helpful advice :doh:

Anyhooo...

Think I have cracked it.

I've had to recut the horizontal lines in (following your tip, not as easy as using boolin, but nothing worth doing is ever easy). The forward oval, and aft curve were boolined out of the main part of the hull, and are now sperate bits (that may have concequences for later on, not sure, but hey, it's all part of the proccess of learning). I did them first, and guess what? Two errors, two verts that needed moving less than a millimeter each :)

I found that where I was cutting the horizontal lines into the hull, I had two cuts close together - which caused a lot of errors. Soooooooooo I have redesigned the grid. Well, it's a refit, I can get away with that.

So far, so good. This is working out better then breaking it apart. Ok, so one consequence is that all the new stuff I built into the lower hull, I'll have to build in again (although the docking hatches and side thrusters are on a seperate part of that section, and so are safe... the same applies to the cutaway part of the lower hull, that's also a seperate mesh element, so no rebuild on them - I hope :rolleyes:). I've had two more rascally verts try and mess things up since starting the panneling work (extruding and bevelling), but they are easily moved, and problem was solved. I'm using the same sort of method I used on the saucer - a: to keep it consistant with this ship, and b: so the two hulls don't look too different - I'm not redoing the saucer!!!! It's fine!!!! LOL

Fingers crossed I get it right this time... we could be here a long time time until I do otherwise. I wont be skimping on this bit!

Have done about 25% of the pannels - and am being yelled at becasue we're supposed to be going out :rolleyes: So I'll get back to you guys on how i progress on this - at some point.

Again, many thanks for your advice and help :thumb:

** Additional **

Here's the pic you requested.

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Yes, I can see a couple of things that need sorting ;) This is going to be fun :D

MadKoiFish

6th Oct 2007, 13:19

erm we need to have edge turned on in that menu
like this:
http://www.mkf.rr.nu/sky-wire.png 64kb
So far I see a few edges needing turning. But from waht I can see it shouldnt be too hard to cut into it, a bit dence poly wise. But workable.
(to turn edges be in poly edit mode then select edge in the menu below there should be a button called "turn" this will make all these dashed lines appear this are hidden lines (spud showed me this) now you can go in and turn those in diffrent triangulations. This often helps those wrinkles. Like the few near the outer edge of the deflector cuts.

As wel verts on a single edge IE ----.----- with no other edges attaching will usualy cause issues. If it adds no geometrical change remove it by selecting and hitting backspace. (itll remove the vert) Its 5am here so Im heading to bed >_<
Good luck and always have fun with it lol

MKF-

Dr-Timelord

7th Oct 2007, 06:25

Now if THIS is what was commissioned to be the Enteprise -B *but on a slightly smaller ship scale* lol that would be Cool!

hmmm shipnames.....shipnames.....

Jayru

9th Oct 2007, 13:34

Hiya all,

Firstly I need to say a big thank you to MadKoiFish;

THANK YOU!

If not for his advice, and the tutorials he pointed me too, I would not have been able to fix this mesh - and it is fixed. The Secondary Hull and the Primary Hull have been rebuilt, and the grids redone. He also needs another "thank you" from me for his tutorial on how to light mesh's properly - as you might be able to tell, this ship looks a lot less flat, and a lot more 3d then it used to :thumb:

So here is the refit Ingram Class, with fixed shield grids;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

And some beauty shots, just for the hell of it :D

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Yes, I know there are some weird lighting interactions on the mesh - they are being caused by the omni lights I have used in the torpedo tubes, impulse engines and the deflector bay. I need to play around with there sizes and settings still ;)

More updates, as and when. Off to celebrate the other halfs birthday today, so don't expect anything too soon :thumb:

Starship

9th Oct 2007, 14:06

She´s a beauty.;)

evil_genius_180

9th Oct 2007, 18:17

Agreed, a real stunner. I love those beauty shots. :D

Dr-Timelord

9th Oct 2007, 19:39

wow...that ships really swish

Choo1701

9th Oct 2007, 21:15

That last shots spot on. :thumb: The others are right, shes a beauty :cool:

Great work Jayru

MadKoiFish

9th Oct 2007, 21:53

NP mate, she is looking so elegant. Never thought a ingram would be so flowing. :thumbs
As dr t says "swish"

Dr-Timelord

10th Oct 2007, 03:56

Yeah....Swish :D

Ship looks awesome though :)

BolianAdmiral

10th Oct 2007, 04:18

Wow... this is looking really cool... this ship is so beautiful... she looks regal and graceful, yet you know by looking at her, that she can totally own any enemy ship that crosses her.

XRaiderV1.7

10th Oct 2007, 09:20

simply amazing.

Jayru

10th Oct 2007, 10:01

Cheers guys (and gals) :thumb:

Like I say, if not for MadKoiFish's tutorials, Iwouldn't have lit this baby right. LOL, was taken back myself when I saw how those pics came out. Although I should add, it takes about half an hour for each pic, so pics are going to be a little fewer then before - but at least better quality :)

... you know by looking at her, that she can totally own any enemy ship that crosses her...

She doesn't carry that much more fire power than an Exclesior Class - I believe - (and correct me if I'm wrong) the Excelsior Class has 10 dual phaser banks (or 20 single units) on it's saucer, 4 single banks on the ventral part of the engineering hull, and 2 aft. I believe it also had two forward torpedo launchers, and 2 aft.

The refit Ingram I'm working on (currently) has 10 dual phaser banks (or 20 single units) on it's saucer, 4 single banks on the ventral part of the engineering hull, and 4 single banks aft (or will have, 2 have yet to be built in as they are going on the upper part of the main hanger bay). The ship has 2 forward and 2 aft torpedo launchers. And of course, the 4 phaser cannons - 2 fore, 2 aft.

So in truth she only has 2 extra phaser banks, and the additional phaser cannons more then the Excelsior ;)

But yes, I can imagin that for a ship of the time, she would seriously "prod buttuck." You wouldn't to be in front off her when she opens fire, LOL.

... swish...

:lol: That sounds soooooooooooo gay. Mind you, given it's me building it, it's appropriate :D

Ok, off to enjoy/recover from my hangover. Getting too old to drink that much...

** Added **

Bumming around on the net, and found this: http://www.jh.kobarg.de/k7/timeline/FSC_Vol12_revised.pdf. I found page 24 to be of special interest. I'm pretty sure that's one of my Refit Ingram WIP pics (from this thread), with the credits removed...

(the original pic)
http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp006s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp006.jpg)

What do you guys think? Same image? Just croped?

Ok, I'll stop teasing, we all know it is the same image...

Ok, so slightly miffed. So let me say it again;

I have no problem (in principle) with my pics/work being used by other people, on the basic condition that they do the following: That they have the balls to ask me first. In cases where I have been asked first, I tend to go all out and actually help people by providing other images that they can use, and/or info that might be useful as well. Hell, I even sent out an uncompleted game mesh to one person so they could do what they were doing. I'm not selfish with this stuff. I might say no sometimes, but if I do, I explain why.

At least I got credited this time, unlike what happened with the shuttle mesh (although I got the message accross to them in the end). :rolleyes:

IF people are doing something about the Ingram, and want to use images from this thread - then please just send me a PM on here, and ask. As other people will atest to, I do reply to them. Just remember: this thread is about a congectural refit version of the ship, not the actual Ingram Class as it would have been built :thumb:.

Ok, in need of more tea... might stop ranting then... :rolleyes: sad, I know, but the lack of manners just annoys me...

Jayru

10th Oct 2007, 23:47

Small update. Didn't have a great deal of time to work on this today;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Started work on the aft docking hatch - I know, I know - but it's on the plans. Maybe it's just a travel pod port...

More soon.

XRaiderV1.7

11th Oct 2007, 00:09

Cheers guys (and gals) :thumb:

Like I say, if not for MadKoiFish's tutorials, Iwouldn't have lit this baby right. LOL, was taken back myself when I saw how those pics came out. Although I should add, it takes about half an hour for each pic, so pics are going to be a little fewer then before - but at least better quality :)

She doesn't carry that much more fire power than an Exclesior Class - I believe - (and correct me if I'm wrong) the Excelsior Class has 10 dual phaser banks (or 20 single units) on it's saucer, 4 single banks on the ventral part of the engineering hull, and 2 aft. I believe it also had two forward torpedo launchers, and 2 aft.

The refit Ingram I'm working on (currently) has 10 dual phaser banks (or 20 single units) on it's saucer, 4 single banks on the ventral part of the engineering hull, and 4 single banks aft (or will have, 2 have yet to be built in as they are going on the upper part of the main hanger bay). The ship has 2 forward and 2 aft torpedo launchers. And of course, the 4 phaser cannons - 2 fore, 2 aft.

So in truth she only has 2 extra phaser banks, and the additional phaser cannons more then the Excelsior ;)

But yes, I can imagin that for a ship of the time, she would seriously "prod buttuck." You wouldn't to be in front off her when she opens fire, LOL.

:lol: That sounds soooooooooooo gay. Mind you, given it's me building it, it's appropriate :D

Ok, off to enjoy/recover from my hangover. Getting too old to drink that much...

** Added **

Bumming around on the net, and found this: http://www.jh.kobarg.de/k7/timeline/FSC_Vol12_revised.pdf. I found page 24 to be of special interest. I'm pretty sure that's one of my Refit Ingram WIP pics (from this thread), with the credits removed...

(the original pic)
http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp006s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp006.jpg)

What do you guys think? Same image? Just croped?

Ok, I'll stop teasing, we all know it is the same image...

Ok, so slightly miffed. So let me say it again;

I have no problem (in principle) with my pics/work being used by other people, on the basic condition that they do the following: That they have the balls to ask me first. In cases where I have been asked first, I tend to go all out and actually help people by providing other images that they can use, and/or info that might be useful as well. Hell, I even sent out an uncompleted game mesh to one person so they could do what they were doing. I'm not selfish with this stuff. I might say no sometimes, but if I do, I explain why.

At least I got credited this time, unlike what happened with the shuttle mesh (although I got the message accross to them in the end). :rolleyes:

IF people are doing something about the Ingram, and want to use images from this thread - then please just send me a PM on here, and ask. As other people will atest to, I do reply to them. Just remember: this thread is about a congectural refit version of the ship, not the actual Ingram Class as it would have been built :thumb:.

Ok, in need of more tea... might stop ranting then... :rolleyes: sad, I know, but the lack of manners just annoys me...

I most definitely would not want to be anywhere near this ship, in any direction, when she opens fire.

and its the same ship, I recognize that structure between the nacelle pylons.

2cvbloke

11th Oct 2007, 00:11

It looks very nice... :)

(the update that is, not the image theft)

evil_genius_180

11th Oct 2007, 05:33

Nice work on the impulse engines. :)

Jayru

11th Oct 2007, 09:35

LOL, as I've said, it's not that I mind the image being used so much, as the fact they never asked in the first place. And it's an old wip picture - irp006.jpg (last image I posted was irp150.jpg). Hell, I've rebuilt the entire mesh since then, that is a pic of a very old version of it from a year ago.

And if I really want to be picky they also got the specs of the Ingram Class wrong as well. They aren't even the specs of the refit version - :lol:

Not sure what Todd Guenther would/will think either.

:rolleyes:

Ok, have sent an email. Don't really expect much of a reply - after all, the deed is done.

And frankly, it's there loss. I would have sent them a better picture, and what specs I had on the refit version - AND the standard version as well. Hell, I may have even knocked up a quick pic of the pre-refit version for them. :flippy:

Ok, must stop bitching about it, not what this thread is for, and it's one pic - not all of them. Soz guys and gals...

Back to business:

Hummmmmmmmmm, not sure about the aft docking hatch. Not sure I like the look of it. It may be on the plans, but it does kind of spoil the line of the ship in some respects. I may need to play around with some ideas/designs. Unfortunatly the only image I have to go on, is the side view of the ship, as you can't see this docking unit from the dorsal, or aft views. I don't even know if there is meant to be one, two or three of them :lol: Comments on that score welcome.

The Impluse Engins turned out rather nice in the end - although they may get a "slight" rebuild at some point...

Cheers guys :thumb:

Dr-Timelord

11th Oct 2007, 14:31

Impulse Engines looking good.

Make you can come up with some sort compromise between MOV docking hatches and TNG/DS9 styled?

Jayru

11th Oct 2007, 16:58

Impulse Engines looking good.

Make you can come up with some sort compromise between MOV docking hatches and TNG/DS9 styled?

Having already used the TMP style for the other hatches, I'd like to stay consistant. Mind you, I can go back and redo them I suppose. I'll think on it :thumb:

Jayru

11th Oct 2007, 23:23

Oops, double post - but kind of worth it :thumb:

Suffering from brain foaming today, so started a side project that's v much related...

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

LOL, I might actually get this finished before I finish the ship :lol: Although, I do intend to get back to work on the main mesh in this thread, just needed to do something else for a change, and it's about time I started this one ;) Sort of think it would be right to release this with the mesh when they are both done.

Do you want to know just how hard it was to do the impulse engines? :shiner: My brain feels black and blue from doing them. And to think, I thought this would be simple... :lol:

The nacelle/pod is a place holder, and from the ST:Bridge Commander version I did of this shuttle. Obviously this is gonna be higher poly, and higher detail, so expect a new version of that bit :thumb:

C&C welcome, as always...

evil_genius_180

12th Oct 2007, 06:40

Nice. Side projects are a fun way to keep what little shred of sanity we cling to. ;) Great work on the shuttle so far. Though I don't like a lot of Trek shuttles, that design is pretty cool.

VALKYRIE013

12th Oct 2007, 08:09

side projects.. whats with the excelsior/ingram that makes one wana do side projects...????????????????????:flippy:

love the shuttle.. might have to do a version myself.. though not to fond of this one..i'll think about it

got a whole fleet of side projects on mine.. keeps the brain from imploding.. atleast untill you have to go back to your main project..>_<

enjoying this thread.. keep up the good work:thumb:

Jayru

12th Oct 2007, 11:20

I have a lot of side projects at the moment :D

Mind you, I also have a manuscript to edit as well, and send back :eek: That's what's making my brain foam at the moment. I hate doing rewrites.

I've been planning to do this shuttle for a while, I did a version of it for the Star Trek: Bridge Commander game, which some "kind" soul then converted to a Max mesh and used for there artwork (without my consultation I should add). Thought I should go ahead and build a higher poly version of it :cool:

I mean, do you know where to download a decent version of it from? I don't. So it's time someone did it :thumb:

EG180, what makes you think I'm sane? I lost it years ago...

VALKYRIE013, loving what you are doing with your Excelsior project. I like the idea of doing the aux craft that the ship would carry. You've inspired me to do the same. I've got some ideas for a larger shuttle, and cargo transport as well - again, all the sort of ships this refit beast would carry. So I should either thank you, or blaime you. What the hell; Thank You!

Off to play around with the aft docking port - finally decided on an idea. Whether it works is another matter....

Also going to replace the impulse engines on that shuttle. They are actually from my low poly BC version. Couldn't remember how I did them last night, so I thought I would cheat. Not happy about that. Mind you, I remember how I did them, so higher poly ones, here we come...

Someone has kindly offered to put me in touch with Todd Guenther. I think perhaps it would be an idea to see what he thinks of this project. More on that, as and when.

:thumb:

Jayru

12th Oct 2007, 14:15

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Done a wee bit more on the shuttle - rebuilt the impulse engines (ha! finally remembered how I did it for the BC mod), started work on the pods, and started detailing it.

Ok.

Yes.

There is a slightly larger project that I should be working on, and discussing on this thread... but you know, sometimes you need a little distraction. That, and we're off to Edale today to climb that mountain again :rolleyes: so can't really get into anything too deep at the mo. And this is kind of related to the beast I am building, so it ties in... :lol:

Next update: some pics of the new look aft docking unit on the main ship ;) Promise!

VALKYRIE013

12th Oct 2007, 18:35

you can blame me... wife does it all the time:devil:

just thinking.. what would a starship need.. guess i'm going to punch my sanity level down a bit becasue i'm thinking of doing a dock..or ... vering to a regula style station to orbit and then all these craft taking care of business.. or atleast thats the idea..:D

love the shuttle.. throw a couple of curves in there to make it your own.. who says cannon is the best way to do something???:confused:

Jayru

12th Oct 2007, 20:30

what would a starship need..

A crew? But you can forget me trying to create 3d models of them. Hell, I can't even draw people! LOL

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Finished the aft docking hatch, and I will be moving on to other details on the beast... such as the top of the engineering hull (looks a bit bare doesn't it?), and some other bits for the "neck"...

Took some time to do a "little" work on the shuttle as well. This one I am enjoying, at least :thumb:

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

throw a couple of curves in there to make it your own.. who says cannon is the best way to do something???

That's kind of what happened at the beginning of this project :D

USS Mariner

12th Oct 2007, 20:55

With the right materials in place, this'll really shine.

I'm guessing you are eventually going to tackle the dorsal docking hatches and cargo bays on the stardrive hull, right? The ships seems a little bare there. ;)

Dr-Timelord

13th Oct 2007, 01:32

Nice slant on the impulse engines, the thumbnail makes them look like evil eyebrows, but look good when u click to see the full size picture

Jayru

13th Oct 2007, 09:43

I'm guessing you are eventually going to tackle the dorsal docking hatches and cargo bays on the stardrive hull, right? The ships seems a little bare there.

Yep - 'though it may be the last part of the mesh I work on, as I need to finalise what the main shuttle bay looks like before I start building in any details to the dorsal part of the secondary hull. Have a few other details to build into the ship as well, such as detail elements on the "neck" and the secondary hull. I also need to find a missing formation light.

Nice slant on the impulse engines, the thumbnail makes them look like evil eyebrows, but look good when u click to see the full size picture

Yes, they do look evil... mind you that could just be the camera angle on them :thumb:

Jayru

13th Oct 2007, 18:10

Got back to working on some of the "detail bits" on the beast, and have finally added the "emergancy flush vents." I did a better job on these then the ones I created on the nacelle pylons, so I guess I will be re-doing the pylons after all :rolleyes:;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

No, half the ship isn't out of phase with the rest of the universe - just quicker to render up part of the ship, then whole - and merge in an old shot to keep it relative :thumb:

Started getting some of the detail work built into the "neck" aka, the "dorsal connector." Few things left to add, such as the detail on the undercut (and I have an idea what that looks like ;))

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

I may chance it and try building in some of the windows soon... :eek: And I am getting closer to starting work on the main hanger bay :p

Yes, found my "missing" formation lights. Helps to UNHIDE objects in max :doh:

More soon...

Dr-Timelord

14th Oct 2007, 02:28

I like it...i like it...

Your Ref to 'the beast' makes me wanna call the ship pegasus now lol

VALKYRIE013

14th Oct 2007, 04:22

goood details there.. keep it up.. :D

Jayru

14th Oct 2007, 15:42

I like it...i like it...

Your Ref to 'the beast' makes me wanna call the ship pegasus now lol

LOL, I've started calling it beast because the file is so big :eek: That, and it has been doing my head in recently on some of the tricky details :mad:

goood details there.. keep it up.. :D

Cheers :thumb: I want to be able to get a camera in close to the mesh for renders - WHEN it's done.

Ok, so I've picked up on a few things (such as some of my curves, especially on the undercut of the engineering hull) that are a bit sucky. Very tempted to go back and redo them... BUT I also want to finish the mesh off. Guess I need to find a balance between what I want to achive, and getting the job done. And I want to do a good job on this ship :D

VALKYRIE013

15th Oct 2007, 05:24

Happy medium.. you'll know whats wrong with it.. its up to others to find them.. if they can.. every mesh isn't perfect.. just what your willing to live with..

and if you want supercloseups..polycount and file size will go through the roof! he he
atleast your building someting only semi-cannon..so you have some liberty..as uposed to someone building a refit connie.. sheesh.. people tear you apart if everythings not just right..:D so much fun this hobby:D

Dr-Timelord

15th Oct 2007, 05:43

Who better than than us to turn too for honest opinions and help :D

evil_genius_180

15th Oct 2007, 06:32

Nice. I'm loving the detailed bits. :D

Jayru

15th Oct 2007, 09:54

you'll know whats wrong with it..

LOL, quite a bit by my reckoning - the question is will anyone else notice? ;)

Well.... this ship may not be cannon, but I have devated from the plans, and a few people have felt the need to have words with me on that score. That's ok, everyone is entitled to an opinion. Just as long as they realise, I'm the one building the mesh ;) 'Tis not been anywhere near as bad as when I did the STV shuttle for Bridge Commander. I was pretty spot on with that mesh, and the textures, but the one thing I got "wrong" I got taken to task for by a few people. Even after I corrected my "mistake" same people were still poo-pooing the work. It's the sort of thing that stops people going public with there work. It stopped me doing any more mods for Bridge Commander.

There are a lot of beginners out there, like me, who need to just relaxe, and enjoy what they are doing. They need encouraging, and sometimes helpful advice and constructive comments. After all, even the great 3d moddlers out there had to start somewhere :thumb:

I have been working on this project for over a year. I have rebuilt this mesh two, three times from the keal up, becasue of mistakes I've made. I may well get to a stage where I rebuild it again. Hell, I've just rebuilt the nacelles again, LOL (so how many times have I done that?) and as for the pylons - yep, they're being rebuilt, yet again :rolleyes:

I don't expect to finish this mesh this year (although that would be nice, and you never know...) If it takes another 12 months, then it takes another 12 months. I just hope I don't get board of it, and you guys don't either :D

Who better than than us to turn too for honest opinions and help...

That's why I'm here ;) And I have had a great deal of help, and advice, what can I say but cheers guys and gals :thumb:

Nice. I'm loving the detailed bits.

LOL, glad you are! They are not fun to build, and my pc hates rendering them! LOL. Still, building in more today... the nacelles are getting a "face lift" :lol:

XRaiderV1.7

15th Oct 2007, 10:32

you're doing great on this one, please, god willing, finish this mesh.

Jayru

15th Oct 2007, 23:47

The old look nacelle and pylons;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)]

And now for the new look;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

A close up of the new "flush vents;"

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Still have the lower part of the pylon to work on and detail, but slowly I'm getting there, LOL.

Yes, I have put the "flow sensors" back onto the forward part of the nacelle, and yes, the nacelles now sit high enough for them to be practical ;)

Yes, I have started adding stuff to the Mega-Phasers...

And yes, this is closer to Todds plans...

you're doing great on this one, please, god willing, finish this mesh.

I fully intend to, no matter how much I bitch :thumb:

Starship

16th Oct 2007, 00:10

The new nacele is excellent!

Dr-Timelord

16th Oct 2007, 00:31

like it :D!!

Starscream

16th Oct 2007, 00:45

Nice... ;)

VALKYRIE013

16th Oct 2007, 04:13

nice details.. i like.. keep moving forward!:D

XRaiderV1.7

16th Oct 2007, 09:09

10 photon torpedos says he finishes it, anyone care to accept?
lol, just joking, but you get the idea here, lol.

Jayru

16th Oct 2007, 09:14

Cheers guys :thumb:

LOL, found a major problem in the new upper pylon, so it's toast. But have no fears, it is going to be replaced - with something that should look the same ;)

I even found a problem or two on the nacelle due to the shield grid... I so love doing them and sorting out the problems with them... :devil: Not major bugs, so easy to sort out.

More on this later today (hopefully). Am suppose to be doing some editing, but am kind of caught up on doing this at the moment... :D

Only 10 torps? Make it a new warp core with go faster stripes and you're on :thumb:

XRaiderV1.7

16th Oct 2007, 09:39

Jayru

16th Oct 2007, 14:02

wanted to say 10 of those fancy torpedoes voyager gets in the last few episodes+deployable armor(think thats the accurate name), but couldnt recall the name of the blasted torpedo, lol

No worries :thumb:

"Transphasic Torpedo"

Although strickly speaking, I am doing this a late 23rd Century ship, so she would be old by Voyagers time (not that it seems to stop Starfleet :rolleyes:).

oh, i definitely wanna see a version of this fitted with a transwarp drive.

That's the interesting question isn't it? What exactly did they mean when they said the Excelsior had a "transwarp drive"?

Ok, we know that at some point between Kirks time, and the launch of the Ent-D the warp scale was changed. That's a given fact, and the only way to explain the original Enterprise (no bloomen NX) hitting speeds like warp 14 :thumb:. That, and it's part of the Next Gen writers bible, which states that the warp speed scale had been changed.

Why change the warp speed scale? Seen a lot of theroies about that one on the net, including some that get really technical. But I saw one that suggested that the Excelsior Transwarp project was a success - yes I know, that's heresy to most Trek fans (and I can already see people getting the flaming torches and pitchforks ready), but the argument was kind of logical. The Excelsior was sporting a new type of warp drive that allowed the ship to use "transwarp" speeds - in this case the term "transwarp" meaning faster then warp 10 (something that was doable on the old scale).
As the new warp technology prooved it's self, it was fitted on other types of ships, and those not able to cope with it were retired and replaced.
The new warp drive technology was shown to have "peaks" in it's power usage, and eventually the warp factor scale was changed to match where those "peaks" occoured, to allow ships to use there fuel more efficantly. This led to the discovery that there was a power curve peak that was not reachable, and this was tagged as being warp 10.
The usage of "transwarp" in the TNG era has had at least two meanings - the Borg make use of "transwarp conduits" and Voyager's crew managed to build a shuttle that was able to travel at "transwarp" speeds, traveling faster then warp 10.
It could still be that the term "transwarp" is used to refer to speeds faster then warp 10 in TNG/DS9/Voyager - but fans have taken it to mean something else.

I've said for a long time the term was misunderstood by many.

Is there any screen evidence that states that the Transwarp Project, as developed for the USS Excelsior NCC-2000 was a failure? Becasue I've never seen any. Pleanty of fan fiction that states it was, but nought in the shows/films themselves.

With the discontinuty between the TOS and TNG warp scales, I think there is every reason to believe that the Excelsior Transwarp project was either a success, or partially so.

Sadly the website that had all these ideas up is long gone, but it stuck in my head.

Todd lists the top speed for the Ingram as warp 17 on the blue set of blueprints, and warp 13 on the red set (which is the other version of the ship with smaller nacelles).

So if we take "transwarp" to mean faster then warp 10, then the Ingram class has such a drive :thumb:

And I guess now I had better get ready to duck. Or run :runs: I know what some Trek fans can be like on this subject. All I can say is, if anyone disagrees with the above, fine :thumb: I'm open to intelligent debate on the subject, providing a: you're the one buying the beer, and b: you understand that if you take it too seriously, then I will... - well, why should I spoil that? :devil: I have to have my fun :p And it is amazing how it stops people talking... :D

More later on, gonna have fun with exercise :( Although I shouldn't bitch about it, I've lost 26 pounds since I started the diet keep fit thing. Fitter, trimmer, slimmer me will happen :cool:

Jayru

16th Oct 2007, 21:27

First off, yes I have culled another 30 odd images from the thread. Sorry chaps and chapeses, but it's the old "don't use all the hosting space" prob. It's either remove them, or do low quality renders. Somehow I don't think any of us would like low quality pics...

I can't say I'm quite done with the nacelles/pylons/mega-phasers - but close enough for government work;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Yep, I have gone for more the look that Todd originally designed... Yes, I have rebuilt the horrid thruster bays on the pylons, and recessed them a little. Still need to do something about them... Ideas welcome. Should the thrusters actually be lit? It was only the TMP era ships that had lit thrusters, TOS and TNG ships don't. Given this is supposed to be a late 23rd century ship should I change the look, and opt for un-lit thrusters? Comments and suggestions (as always) welcome.

As I re-did the design for the pylon thruster bays, and wanting to keep consistant, I rebuilt the horrid bay on the ventral side of the engineering hull;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Personally I think it's a LOT better then what I did before...

New pylons means the nacelles are sitting a "little" bit higher than before, which means a: I can get away with putting the flow sensors back on the front of them (I said I had plans about that :thumb:) and b; the nacelles are clear of the primary hull (saucer);

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Yes. The new pylon thrusters stand out a mile. As I said, it's something I need to think about...

Still have some details to build into the secondary hull (like the guide lights for the secondary shuttle bay, the main beacon lights on the nacelles, and some stuff for the mega-phasers... windows at some point) and then I am starting work on the main shuttle-bay. Yes, It's about time that part of the ship got some detail. Yes, I have finally decided what I am going to do there - kind of, :lol:.

And here's some beauty shots, just becasue I felt like it, and I thought you guys (and gals?) would want to see how the ship is looking with it's new nacelles (which they are) and pylons ;);

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

More soon. Suffering from a little brain foam this evening, and tomorrow I have a manuscript to edit - so updates as and when :cool:

XRaiderV1.7

16th Oct 2007, 21:32

XRaiderV1.7

16th Oct 2007, 21:34

nice work.

Jayru

16th Oct 2007, 21:43

search the excalibur, she has green field glow coming from the nacelle grilles, as opposed to the standard starfleet blue warp glow commonly seen, think borg green, I mean, it is a borg technology originally.

I dont know why, but transphasic torpedoes doesnt sound right, hell, its been a while since I saw that episode, so it very well could be called that for all i know.

Yep - know which Excalibur you mean, I have that one downloaded.

It's a bit of a question for later on, as to whether the nacelles will "glow" when at warp. The design is so different from the refit-Connie - although I have had some ideas for something "subtle."

More on that, much, much, later... :cool:

"Transphasic" is the right term ;) OK, I cheated and looked it up, LOL.

I think you are going to be v interested in the 24th century starfleet ship I have coming up (need to finish this one first though...). That one at least is from the better lit areas of my mind :D It's also for the same project :D

nice work.

Cheers, :thumb:

XRaiderV1.7

16th Oct 2007, 22:37

nice, looking forward to it.

USS Mariner

16th Oct 2007, 22:55

The Ingram is magnificently balanced here. Excellent work!

Jayru

16th Oct 2007, 23:51

The Ingram is magnificently balanced here...

Thank you. This is what i have been trying to achive, the look and feel of Todd's Ingram, but updated.

Remains to be seen what he thinks of all this :eek:

ghanima

17th Oct 2007, 02:48

I cannot say with absolute certainty that Todd would appreciate it this, but i can be 99.9% sure of it. Who wouldn't? This vessel is breath taking in its current stage... I'm soo looking forward to this once complete. I still have those original BP's somewhere in an old box... fell in love with this design waaay back, and with the 'upgrades' and seeing it with depth is even better.

Truth to tell though... i am somewhat biased as i always liked the TMP era ships better than any other ones [my generation]. Though i have an appreciation of all trek vessels.

This one pretty much has all the characteristics of a trek vessel that i like. and it couldn't have been executed in a better fashion. Wicked stuff Jayru!!

Perhaps the ONLY thing i would do different is the deflector dish... i would make the diameter a bit smaller and have the dish and the inset moved forward just a bit. More like the Ent-B's deflector as opposed to the original Excelsior class.

Otherwise... this is hands down a great design and i can't wait to see the make up stages.

VALKYRIE013

17th Oct 2007, 03:08

i leave to go to school and i come back to a book to read :D

on the transwarp.. the bood mr scotts guide to the enterprise.. had the ent.A fitted with transwarp naccelles that looked like the old ones.. and that the experiment worked..

the new warp scale works like the speed of light.. the faster you go the more energy it takes to get you there.. and as you near warp 10 the energy goes to infinate (as in light speed) and that the new warp scale is how many layers the subspace warp bubble has.. with 9 being the limit.. creating 10 again is infinate power... etc.. etc... etc... :D

looking good on everything.. and government standards? (i used to be a marine) according to gov standards.. you were done 3 weeks ago... or if this is a hanger queen... never will be done matter how much money and time you throw at it.. he he :D

aridas sofia

17th Oct 2007, 04:37

I have let Todd know about your build, Jayru. As I told Mariner, he is incredibly tied up right now, but he told me that he is going to try to get back with you to answer any questions you have. I have more than a passing familiarity with the logic of the design, and though I ain't Todd, I guess I'm the second closest thing you can get. So if you have any questions, feel free to ask, either here or via email.

Jayru

17th Oct 2007, 08:43

@ ghanima;

The look and feel of the TMP ships is so different to TNG, and beyond. I guess it's the kind of retro-clean-cut look of the ships. It gives the ships a classy elegant look. Yes, it's my fav era of Trek as well - possibly becasue it's the least seen era of Trek (six and a bit films).

LOL, this is my first "big boy" mesh - so thanks! The dozen or so I have done before were game meshes for Star Trek: Bridge Commander, and all very low poly requiring the detail to be on the texture map. This project was a whole new ball game for me.

See what you mean about the deflector. It's something for me to think about. :thumb:

-

@ VALKYRIE013;

...i come back to a book to read ... LOL, if only you knew how fitting that was in my life...

I have "Mr Scotts Guide to the Enterprise" - and yes it states the Transwarp project was a success, and the Enterprise-A was fitted with a version of the drive (although it still makes the point that all was not well withthe Excelsior :lol:). It's also the only publication I have seen that has any explination as to what Transwarp is (or could be).

Yes, I understand the way the TNG warp scale works, and about the "peak transition effects" and it's relation to warp factors. Of course that had no bearing on the old TOS scale - which is one of the reason why I liked the explination about the Transwarp project working (see some of my previous posts).

Yes... I used to be a Civil Servant... "Government Standards" - as you say, based on that idea the ship was done 3 weeks ago, LOL. Although at the moment she is v much a hanger queen ;) BUT, "she" wont be staying as such!

-

@ aridas sofia;

Hiya aridas, yes USS Mariner very kindly offered to pass on my contact details, and explained that Todd was busy (if you need me to PM them to you again, let me know). As I said to him, I understand the pressures of real life stuff, so no problem :thumb:

If I have any pressing questions for Todd, it would be: is he ok with what I am doing? Is there anything he would want me to change?

As the "second closest" what's you opinion/take on what I have done?

Yes, I should have got in touch with him first. That's one thing I feel guilty about :(

Cheers for your help :thumb:

Starscream

17th Oct 2007, 12:37

Jayru

17th Oct 2007, 15:59

Hmm. The only thing I can think of to suggest is that perhaps you paint the alcoves that your ventral engineering and pylon thrusters are sat in, to make them not only stand out a little more, but also give them the same kind of "warning" effect as the RCS thrusters on the saucer... as far as lighting goes I'm not really drawn either way, although TBH I never understood why they were lit. Anyone here know the answer?

That's what I did originally. I painted the bays the same colour as the saucer/nacelle thruster units, and built in the red warning flash around them. Everyone hated them (well, the ones on the pylon and the ventral hull one).

The new ones are coloured the same as the saucer/nacelle ones - and have the red warning flash around them, but I have left the bays the same colour as the hull to make them less - well, ugly.

The secondary hull thrusters on the refit-Connie are NOT lit. It's only the ones on the saucer and nacelles that are. That's true of the Excelsior as well (not that I can find any thrusters on the secondary hull, still correct me if I'm wrong on that score...). Tis a strange one. Beginning to lean towards not having any of them lit, and doing something interesting inside them - if the poly count can take it :eek: My Pc is slowing down when I have the mesh file open... can't think why, LOL, it's not that big a file... (31794 kb - or 31 megs. Although, there are a lot of hidden objects, masks and guides in the file too that acount for about 5megs of that. But it is getting big - and will get bigger still... LOL).

Oh, and don't shrink the deflector! That was a mistake with the Excelsior IMO, possibly as a result of inaccurate scaling on that model. If anything, I'd expect it to be equal to the Constitution's or bigger (although I wouldn't suggest that!)

Other than that, she's looking real purty! :)

I've been using DRBs refit-Connie mesh as a scale guide (and how to make parts guide as well) - so, when this beast/beauty is done you'll be able to render those two up side by side to scale... (my PC is sparking at the idea).

Just checked, and the deflector is a wee bit bigger then the refit Constitution's. Personally I think it looks about right for the ship, but I have yet to build in the rest of the detail in the deflector bay... which I must finish one of these days, LOL. Given the size of this ship, I'd say that a smaller deflector is not a good idea - BUT I have said in the past that I will consider all reasonable suggestions ;) So I will think on it, and maybe play around with some ideas.

Yes, she is look pretty - helped to get all that detail on her in the end, LOL.

Oh yes, started work on the main shuttle bay;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Ok, so don't all faint, or keal over on me. I said I would start that part of the ship one day... and today is that one day.

Not done much yet but plan out the basic shapes, and play around with the some ideas. It's a lot smaller then the place holder I had there (and a damn sight more interesting as well...). The shuttle bay proper will be 3 decks high. I have checked this against the deck guide I have built into the mesh file (that baby accounts for a meg of data on the file, LOL). There is a 4th deck above that, and the dome at the the front of the bay gives it a fifth deck. It's not as tall as the place holder, and it's gonna take me some time to get used to that - after all that place holder has been there since, I dunno, I started the mesh? It's NOT based on the main hanger bay on either set of plans for the Ingram - this one sort of happened. I had actually decided to go with the refit hanger bay design on the red blueprints... guess I got carried away again... :rolleyes:

Yes, I know there are mesh errors ;) I've spent a grand total of 60 mins on this today, as I have other things I am supposed to be doing, and no doubt I'll get a slapped wrist later on :shiner:

C&C welcome.

More later :thumb:

** Additional **

May as well be hanged for being a wolf, as being a sheep... :devil:

How the new look bay looks on the mesh;

http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000s.jpg (http://www.twomadmen.net/wip/irp000.jpg)

Before anyone says anything about how small the new hanger looks; It's 10 meters shy of being the same length as the secondary hull of a refit Consititution class. It's wider too :D

Think it's too small to be the main shuttle bay now? :lol:

Easy to forget just how big this ship is...

VALKYRIE013

17th Oct 2007, 18:05

another chapter in the book :D

looks good.. keep it up

no smart a#$ comments this time.. to tired :D

aridas sofia

17th Oct 2007, 21:15

Jayru --

First off, I am envious of your skills, and can only hope that when I begin working with my Cinema 4D, I can approximate the level of craftsmanship you've brought to your project on this, your first(!) try.

I am a bit hesitant commenting on what is, of course, your interpretation of Todd's design. I'm sort of the very interested and somewhat-more-knowledgable-than-most "third wheel." But, with that in mind, here goes.

The idea behind the Ingram was to take a ship that had apparently been designed with very little thought given to function, and re-design it from the ground up, with function underpinning everything done. Conceptually, the uber-ship needed to fit two requirements -- the TMP aesthetic we favored, and the TMP-based mythos we had created for the fleet. There was a (roughly) contemporary U.S. Navy series of events that inspired Todd's take on how such a disproportionately large ship would function in the fleet. It was the story of the Navy's "sea control ship." ("http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Control_Ship) This story fit the story we had told about the demand for carriers (like Ariel) in the fleet, and restricted budgets and the like making it difficult for the fleet to build what they wanted.

So, conceptually, it was a "space control ship" -- a kind of mini-carrier crossed with a dreadnought. A bit more than the Navy's sea control ship, but hey... he had an audience to sell to. ;)

He stripped away the stylizing and built the ship up as a less stylized, more utilitarian design than even the TMP 1701. If anything, my take on it was as something as utilitarian as the original Enterprise, but rendered in TMP shapes and forms. It borrows from our interpretation of the Reliant as well, with its "mega" phaser cannons.

Finally, it was to retain the transwarp nacelles, but in a new, slimmer form. And it would then tell the story of that particular drive's demise in showing new "standard" nacelles fitted when the transwarp proved to be too troublesome and undependable.

What does all this have to do with what you've done? Well, to get back to what I said at the outset, this is your interpretation of what Todd did. It is heavily influenced by the much more favorable way the Excelsior was portrayed and shot in later Trek. What we saw after Trek III was a ship that was all style and no substance. In light of the "form is free of function" ideal of the TNG era, Excelsior makes more "sense," and blending its features with Ingram in order to achieve a mix of what you like in both isn't a "sin". It's just a style preference.

Look at it this way -- if a WW2 Jeep is a starkly utilitarian redesign of a late-30s American car, then taking that jeep and moving it a little ways back towards the car is a legitimate choice. IF you can explain how you can get away with the less-utilitarian design. TNG has done that for you already, buy showing that as the way technology evolved. Within the logic of the MastercoM universe, I'd say it would make more sense as a late variant design from the early 24th century -- one that is exhibiting some of the "form is independent of function" look of Probert's later ships like his Ambassador. With that in mind, and if you chose to go that route, you might want to consult Andy's thread on the Tech forum at the TrekBBS on his 3D modeling of his original design for the Ambassador in order to get ideas for appropriate detailing. For instance, this ship might be past the "megaphaser" stage and have phaser strips, or some early version of strips that have scrolling, flattened mini-turrets that move along strips (thus trying to blend the TMP turret and the TNG strip into one design.)

I wish you the best of luck, and when I get the Federation Reference website rebuilt, I hope you will allow me to use some images of the finished model. It is your interpretation, but it fits with what we did.

DerekDRP

17th Oct 2007, 22:10

[QUOTE=Jayru;260764]Oh yes, started work on the main shuttle bay;

Ok, so don't all faint, or keal over on me. I said I would start that part of the ship one day... and today is that one day.

Not done much yet but plan out the basic shapes, and play around with the some ideas. It's a lot smaller then the place holder I had there (and a damn sight more interesting as well...). The shuttle bay proper will be 3 decks high. I have checked this against the deck guide I have built into the mesh file (that baby accounts for a meg of data on the file, LOL). There is a 4th deck above that, and the dome at the the front of the bay gives it a fifth deck. It's not as tall as the place holder, and it's gonna take me some time to get used to that - after all that place holder has been there since, I dunno, I started the mesh? It's NOT based on the main hanger bay on either set of plans for the Ingram - this one sort of happened. I had actually decided to go with the refit hanger bay design on the red blueprints... guess I got carried away again...

Yes, I know there are mesh errors I've spent a grand total of 60 mins on this today, as I have other things I am supposed to be doing, and no doubt I'll get a slapped wrist later on

C&C welcome.

More later
QUOTE]

Very cool work mate. The only thing that's going to give me trouble is the shuttle bay. and I have tried the tutorial for on madfish's site but he hleaves out "HALF" of the step's and it's hard for us newbs to handle, well at least for me.

Jayru

17th Oct 2007, 23:15

aridas -

Thank you for your comments, and insight, into the Ingram - and this project.

My starting point was the original 1986 blue set of blueprints of the USS Ingram. When I saw them I fully understood what Todd had done: take the basic Excelsior lines, and make them functional, and workable. Not only that, he gave the ship a feel of having evolved from the previous designs. It's easy to see the echos of the Constitution class in it.

When I started this project, I intended to be faithful to the design, 100%. I actually started building a 3DS model for conversion to the Star Trek Bridge Commander game. I (made the mistake you could say) of asking my partner what he thought, and it led to a discussion about how a congectural refit of the ship would look - and how it was time I "bite the bullet" and started using Max (given that he'd spent a shed load of money to get it for me - which was sweet of him).

A lot of the design changes, such as the shape of the secondary hull, happened by accident becasue of my lack of experiance with anything like this - but it seemed to work with the ideas I had in mind. No one has yet noticed that the saucer is actually wrong. It's too tall, in fact one deck too tall, I made it wrong, and never changed it. The mistake led to me having to change the impulse engines as well - becasue they sit higher on the space frame then they should. In a way it's dissapointing to find a mistake like that, becasue I never intended to depart so much from Todd's design, and it's a mistake I only found out about when I created the deck plan to keep the mesh logical.

The rest is much on this thread. As I stated in my PM, I really didn't think I would get very far with this mesh and ever get close to finishing it - or that there would be much in the way of interest given Tallguys accurate version.

I have been very mindful of the practical nature of the design of the ship, and at all times tried to keep to it - even down to including all the various thruster units and the like. Even though I have deviated from Todds design, I am trying to stay faithful to as many elements as I can (and I know how much some people have been annoyed when I have stuck to my guns on things - like the nacelle width ;)). Although the main hanger bay is real departure... :rolleyes:

My own take/vision, such as it is, is that Starfleet built 8-10 of these ships. However, given there size and the ammount of resources required to build them it was "cheaper" to build lots of Excelsiors to replace the aging Constitution fleet (which the Excleisors are an adiquate replacement for), then carry on building these. That's not to say the Ingram class weren't a success, or very useful, but they suffered becasue Starfleet wanted more ships (quantity, not quality you might say). 15 or so years later Starfleet refits several of the Ingrams to take on a more longer ranged exploratory multi-mission roles, cutting the fighter role completely, and some of the cargo space, but upgrading the weapons and defencive system to keep them on par with the Excelsiors. I can see these ships having new navigational deflectors as well (which might take up more internal space, hence the sacrifice of the the lower shuttle bay) and new bridge moduals, somewhat in the style seen sported by the Excelsior in STVI (I made sure the one I designed for my mesh was a: big enough to fit a bridge into, and also the tubo lifts and a few other rooms as well, which is why it looks so big). Not sure about the mega-phasers, on screen we only saw them on one class of ship (the Miranda). Pehaps at the time there were reasons to keep them, perhaps even upgrade them too (I guess I kept them becasue they look cool - yes I am that sad). These ships would still then rate as Starfleets big guns, and able to fulfill most of the "space control" role they were built for, and there would still be several of them which were not refitted, and fulfilling the mini-carrier role. Although I like your suggestion that maybe this is a later variant of the design - that fits too. Not really put too much thought into that yet, but it gives me something else to do.

I am sorry to say I wasn't aware that Todd had done a revised set of plans (the red set from 1996). Everything I have done was based on the initially blue set of plans, and so I haven't included the revisions Todd made. Yes I have the second set of plans now, and I have to say they are better for some of the smaller detailing that the ship should have, and so I use them more.

I am glad you are not offended by what I have done with the Ingram - and I seriously hope that Todd isn't either. In hindsight I should have contacted him first and asked if he was ok before I started. When he gets in touch I will be appologising on that score.

When I get this ship done, I would be happy to render up some pics, snaps etc etc for you and your site. It would be nice to find a way to fit this ship with Todd's original vision and history somehow as well - something to look forward to.

By why of interest, is there any particular name and number I should be sticking on this ship? Would Todd have a preference do you know?

It is your interpretation, but it fits with what we did.

That above all makes me breath with a sigh of relief. To be honest I have been a "bit" worried on that score.

First off, I am envious of your skills, and can only hope that when I begin working with my Cinema 4D, I can approximate the level of craftsmanship you've brought to your project on this, your first(!) try.

Well, I did cut my teeth on some game mods for the ST Bridge Commander game, so I had a bit of experiance before starting this (although my first few mods for that were, well, poo). However, going from using Milkshape to 3DS Max is like going from driving a milkfloat to an F1 racing car. Some of my very early WIP pictures will never see the light of day... and the number of times I've screwed this mesh up... LOL, I've been lucky with the ammount of help I've been getting, here, and elsewhere. To be honest I'm probubly not doing things in the most effective way either... this whole thing is turning into one hell of a learning experiance.

Again, aridas - thank you for taking the time to tell me what you think. It means a lot to know you're ok with what I am doing... now just have the dreaded bit of seeing what Todd thinks (but no rush, real life stuff comes first).

Very cool work mate. The only thing that's going to give me trouble is the shuttle bay. and I have tried the tutorial for on madfish's site but he hleaves out "HALF" of the step's and it's hard for us newbs to handle, well at least for me.

True, but you could always just PM him and ask. I've found him very helpful and approachable :thumb: and he doesn't seem to be put off by the fact that sometimes us newbies need an "idiots guide" to doing things. As I've stated many times in my life, I am just enough of an idiot to need a guide.

Yes, I know, another chapter, and no pictures. Does it show that I am an author by trade? LOL, my bad spelling and grammer should have given that away by now...

More soon, thank you one and all!

Starscream

17th Oct 2007, 23:37

That's what I did originally. I painted the bays the same colour as the saucer/nacelle thruster units, and built in the red warning flash around them. Everyone hated them (well, the ones on the pylon and the ventral hull one).

Oops! I thought they were just panels of colour on the previous versions rather than inset bays.. must pay more attention! :shiner:

The new ones are coloured the same as the saucer/nacelle ones - and have the red warning flash around them, but I have left the bays the same colour as the hull to make them less - well, ugly.

Not to be difficult, but have you considered perhaps making those alcoves slightly wider / deeper around the thruster units? That way you could have a bolder/thicker coloured edge around them - it might give a happy medium, keeping them slightly more in line with the saucer & nacelle units, whilst not being too pronounced for some folk... :)

The secondary hull thrusters on the refit-Connie are NOT lit.

Well I know that, and obviously you do too! :D

Tis a strange one. Beginning to lean towards not having any of them lit, and doing something interesting inside them - if the poly count can take it :eek:

Could you maybe get away with using a darkened mesh texture in the places where there are currently lights on most of the ports?

Just checked, and the deflector is a wee bit bigger then the refit Constitution's.

Really? I've just looked over the latest set of comparison pics you rendered up for us, and I honestly can't see any difference between the Ingram's and the Connie's... give me a second and I'll check in photoshop...

...ok I can detect a tiny, almost infinitesimal increase over the Connie's. :flippy:

Oh yes, started work on the main shuttle bay;

I love the new size, although the new clamshell door shape looks a little too TOS, if you know what I mean. Have you tried a straighter set of doors (ie, the line running from top to bottom)? This would be more in keeping with the refit/TMP style I'd expect.

She's still pretty though. Makes me wanna reach out and pet her. Funny, I never had a starship fetish before... :runs:

EDIT:
Your nacelles are too thin, and your saucer is too high by at least one deck!!!! :flippy: :lol:

MadKoiFish

17th Oct 2007, 23:48

Not to hi-jack the thread, the tuts at madfishway are mostly recoveries made off of lost tuts from sfm etc. Peiced together with what images I could find scattered across my home network.

The "Shuttle Butt" tutorial was one of the worst to recreate. I was missing many images and all of the original text. It was mostly made to show a technique of creating the shapes not a step by step guide. There are places I assume the follower knows to get a loop in max you use the connect command while in edge mode and the need to cut faces based on the images.

I probably should redo that tut from scratch since it is quite confusing and poorly written. As it stands now as a tutorial, you should know and feel comfortable with the poly edit mode and the programs UI. (IE completed all of the max tutorials included with the app in regards to box modeling)

I plan to redo or update many of the tuts I just dont know when I will get to them.

MKF-

Jayru

18th Oct 2007, 00:29

Starscream... LOL...

Oops! I thought they were just panels of colour on the previous versions rather than inset bays.. must pay more attention!

See, told ya they were crap! That's why I had to redo them, they would have dragged the whole look of the mesh down, :lol: I don't think I ever did a close up render of them. They were that bad... New ones are a lot better...

Not to be difficult, but have you considered perhaps making those alcoves slightly wider / deeper around the thruster units? That way you could have a bolder/thicker coloured edge around them - it might give a happy medium, keeping them slightly more in line with the saucer & nacelle units, whilst not being too pronounced for some folk...

That's what I did last time... possibly not to well though... obviously not to well... :lol: Have I mentioned this is my frist max mesh? :devil: :lol: Seriously though, I did a bad job on them before. Not 100% sure I've done such a good job on them now... but like, if I have to rebuild, then I'll rebuild them :thumb:

Yes I am consider texture options for the thrusters. At the moment I am using flat colours on the mesh. I'll texture it when I've finished building it... which will be "someday"...

...ok I can detect a tiny, almost infinitesimal increase over the Connie's.

Well, I did say it was a "wee bit" bigger, LOL. Not that, you know, that size matters. No matter what people say ;) It's what you do with it that counts... :thumb:

I love the new (shuttle bay) size, although the new clamshell door shape looks a little too TOS, if you know what I mean. Have you tried a straighter set of doors (ie, the line running from top to bottom)? This would be more in keeping with the refit/TMP style I'd expect.

Didn't get much time to spend on the mesh today. I'll take a look at it tomorrow and see what I can do. I agree, it does look a little too TOS.

Your nacelles are too thin, and your saucer is too high by at least one deck!!!! :flippy::lol:

Damn! I thought no one would notice, LOL. Oh well, my bad... :rolleyes:

Although... the nacelles are not to thin. Based on the plans, they are actually too wide, LOL. But I think they work better the way they are now, although I may be alone in that... :lol:

Humm, the saucer is actually fixable - the only catch to that is I would have to do a complete rebuild of the impulse drive and dorsal connector (neck for the non technical of you out there). That will mean, of course, that it takes me longer to finish the mesh. And that the look of the ship will change. The saucer will become flatter looking, and the neck will be shorter. That also means changing the shuttle bay, as the impulse engines wont have enough clearence over it - and I may need to repossition the nacelles as well.

Actually, now I think about it, it is a serious question... and quite a serious change to the mesh...

Can I live with it?

Well, based on what I would have to do to fix it (and no one had actually noticed until I pointed it out - even though I put up a deck plan not too long ago, just to see if anyone would, LOL) I think, yes, maybe I can live with it... LOL :p

She's still pretty though. Makes me wanna reach out and pet her. Funny, I never had a starship fetish before...

At least you don't talk about it in your sleep... although I really hope the other half is making that up... :confused: Probubly is just to freak me out...

@ MadKoiFish -

No worries. I found your site helpful, and you didn't mind me asking you questions, so I know you are helpful to use newbies out there. You really saved my bacon with your advice when I screwed the shield grid up. Cheers :thumb:

Ok, i think you guys have had enough random ramblings from me today. More tomorrow :thumb: - I'll even try not to write long messages either... :lol:

VALKYRIE013

18th Oct 2007, 04:42

oh cool.. chapter 3 and 4 :D im lovin this novel... full of backstabing.. few front stabing.. by REAL freinds.. :D

i love the way star trek ships have a history to them..even the non cannon ones.. especically the non - cannon ones.. they have the most history and thought put in to them.. most cannon ships are.. if it looks good. it goes.. who cares if you can't fit a warp core in there..or people for that matter.. while fan made ones have everything layed out.. dementions set in stone (when there done buildin it:D) where the crawlways are..etc etc.. lot more time and thought...not on just the looks...

my coment on using fan made designs.. i do what i do.. if you can do it better.. build it yourself... or pay me to fix mine..i'm cheap.. :D .. can't stand some that nit pick on stuff that isn't even real in the first place.. (the flux capaciter doesn't go there! type stuff.. >_<) or the ones like you and me who are new at this.. and don't have the ability (yet) to build it to spec... :D try your best and move on.. if they like it fine.. if they dont.. but you do... still fine :D

MadKoiFish

18th Oct 2007, 05:03

/me smacks VLAKYRIE013 in his smillie mouth.
:p
j/k

Starscream

18th Oct 2007, 11:23

Damn! I thought no one would notice, LOL. Oh well, my bad... :rolleyes:

Although... the nacelles are not to thin. Based on the plans, they are actually too wide, LOL. But I think they work better the way they are now, although I may be alone in that... :lol:

Humm, the saucer is actually fixable - the only catch to that is I would have to do a complete rebuild of the impulse drive and dorsal connector (neck for the non technical of you out there). That will mean, of course, that it takes me longer to finish the mesh. And that the look of the ship will change. The saucer will become flatter looking, and the neck will be shorter. That also means changing the shuttle bay, as the impulse engines wont have enough clearence over it - and I may need to repossition the nacelles as well.

Actually, now I think about it, it is a serious question... and quite a serious change to the mesh...

Can I live with it?

Well, based on what I would have to do to fix it (and no one had actually noticed until I pointed it out - even though I put up a deck plan not too long ago, just to see if anyone would, LOL) I think, yes, maybe I can live with it... LOL :p

Y'know, you had me seriously worried for a moment there... I was only kidding about the saucer, honest!! It looks great -perfect- as it is, where the original according to Mr Guenther's plans was, if anything, a little too flat. :thumb:

At least you don't talk about it in your sleep...

:lol: You'd be amazed the things I talk about in my sleep!

XRaiderV1.7

18th Oct 2007, 11:53

me, I dream of Battlestars blowing the ever loving frak outta something, or that scene in deep space nine where the station literally becomes Dante's tenth circle of hell(you should all know what episode to which I refer, its the one where the federation temporarily suspended the khitmer accords), love those two dreams, who here wouldnt?

Jayru

18th Oct 2007, 12:01

... I was only kidding about the saucer, honest!!

Really? :eek: But I've started work on it now...

LOL :p

Seriously, I wont be amending the saucer :thumb: 'tis fine as it is. I like myself too mych to put myself through what a rebuild of all those parts would do to me. I am beginning to see some light at the end of the tunnel with this mesh... still way in the distance though...

:lol: You'd be amazed the things I talk about in my sleep!

Do I dare ask? :o :lol:

@ VALKYRIE013;

As I've said before: Star Trek is not real. It's all make believe and fantasy. To be blunt, people can do what the hell they want. In saying that though, I have a background in design and I have always appriciated well thought out designs in the Trek universe. This design appealed to me becasue it was well thought out, and well reasoned out. Effort was made to make it work, and keep a level of ellegance missing in a lot of practical ship designs.
I hope what I have done keeps to that ethos :thumb:

Backstabbing? Naaaaaaaaaaaaa. More like general silliness :D

Oh yes, I am very aware that my lack of experiance is showing... mind you that's less embarrasing then finding out you've been walking round with your flys open...

Chapters 3 & 4????????????????????????????

More like chapters 23 & 24 :lol: What are we up to? Page 25?

@ XRaiderV1.7;

Don't think I've ever dreamed about being in a known sci-fi show... Mind you, most of my dreams could make me a fortune if I ever sold the ideas to Stephen King or Clive Barker... 'tis worrying sometimes what the dark corners of my mind holds... :eek: Mind you, sometimes that's preferable to what the redlight district of my mind holds... :rolleyes:

XRaiderV1.7

18th Oct 2007, 12:27

from a 3rd person perspective.

and I like the nacelles as is, size wise.

though,you could go bigger with the nacelles length wise, doesnt look as though that would involve major surgery, but, i know next to nothing with regards to 3d modeling, so I very well may be wrong.

keep up the outstanding work.

Starship

18th Oct 2007, 13:54

Jayru, forget the technobable and the 0,00001 inch in escale issues. :D ;)
The design is great, and I believe the new bay fits very well, as the other details that you have added. :)

Go ahead! :)

Jayru

18th Oct 2007, 14:32

though,you could go bigger with the nacelles length wise, doesnt look as though that would involve major surgery, but, i know next to nothing with regards to 3d modeling, so I very well may be wrong.

That is something I am considering, and it is doable :thumb: I have an 11 meter descrepency to deal with at some point...

Jayru, forget the technobable and the 0,00001 inch in escale issues. :D;)
The design is great, and I believe the new bay fits very well, as the other details that you have added. :)

Go ahead! :)

Call it my inbuilt nature - but I like designs to work, and fuction (and have form as well for that matter, LOL). So yes, for me, the ship has to work based on Trek Universe science. So the warp core et all have to be able to fit in the ship :thumb: Just as the windows, when I get round to them, will be placed at the right deck levels - not at what looks best. The docking hatches were not randomly placed on the ship, and neither were the thrusters - tis all planned... How well planned remains to be seen :lol:

Have no fears, I'm not hung up on the ships scale or anything. But it gave me an idea of a size of this ship to build it to scale with another mesh, and to keep certain details and bits consistant with the TMP look and feel ;)

Yes, the new hanger bay... :mad: having a bit of a headache with it at the moment. I may dump it in favour of a different design.

More on that later. Time for Tia-Chi...