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Knight26
25th Mar 2013, 17:44
Crew Calculator V5

Announcing the latest, and hopefully best, version of the crew calculator to date.

As old timers here know long ago I created a crew size calculator for the members here. It was conceived because many on here did not realize just how big the crews of their ships needed to be. It was well received but had several issues, all of which I have since worked out over the various iterations. This latest version features fully function circular references and notes on how to use it embedded into it. It also has several generic size charts based on ship class to give you an idea of where to start. Anyway enjoy, and you will need excel in order to run it, or use the spreadsheet program in open office. If you have any questions on how to use it feel free to ask.

This latest version adds the following enhancements:

1) A new example/usage tab has been added for Starbases as requested, this includes several new crew positions, for shop owners and dock workers, and a new mini-calculator as well.

2) The 12 crew member issues has been fixed, but now a ship has to have a minimum of 13 crew before the numbers will be correct. I will see if I can fix that better later, but the software has limitations.

3) The dock workers mini-calculator will reference the other example tabs for determining total possible embarked on the starbase, be aware of this, and modify as needed.

4) Two blank crew member slots has been added to each subsection to allow users to add their own custom crew members more easily. These new members will automaticaly tally with the rest and add to the officer, enlisted, or civilian numbers as well.

5) There is an error in the total officer, enlisted or civilian numbers, I am trying to track it down, and make them autotally for changes to O C and E in the calculator.

6) A science ship tab has been added, this is for non-combat craft, with no weapons or troops.

I offer this for free and hope it is as well recieved as it has been in the past. I only ask that credit be given when it is used and that you post any comments, suggestions, or changes you make to it here so that I can incorporate them in a future version.

To use, simply unzip, open in excel or open office, and follow the instructions on the manual tab to determine the number of crew to add. Several spots are autofilled, and can be adjusted if you so desire.

Enjoy

Edit-

Corrected and updated version attached.

nyrath
25th Mar 2013, 19:20
Thank you!
I will add it to my website.

Knight26
25th Mar 2013, 21:30
While playing with a fix for the O C E errors I found a bug in the totalling system, so the totals the calculator are generating are a bit off. I have figured out to fix it, and should have the corrected version 5A up by tomorrow. Ugh, should have tested it more first before going live. Sorry folks.

Schimpfy
25th Mar 2013, 21:40
Nice work and even if there are some minor errors don't worry about it. The effort you put into this along with providing it free of charge speaks for itself. :thumb:

nyrath
26th Mar 2013, 02:34
Not a problem, I can wait for 5A. I really appreciate your hard work on this.

Knight26
26th Mar 2013, 05:49
I have uploaded the corrected V5A, the math errors are corrected, as well as the Officer, Enlisted, Civilian tally system, making it fairly automatic. If anyone has any comments, concerns, or finds any bugs please let me know.

Aresius
26th Mar 2013, 11:06
One major suggestion is: Update your signature. ;)

I was looking through th science mini-calc and found a couple of redundancies.
Planetary sciences for instance. Geology, oceanography, cartography, environmental sciences, and meteorlogy are already part of Planetary Sciences.
Hydrology and oceanography are essentially the same.
Meteorlogy is part of the Environmental Sciences.
Virology and xenobiology are part of Biology, astrobiology (I presume that refers to the biology of spaceborne entities) is also a part thereof.

Sciences are like a tree. The science itself is the trunk of the tree. From there, the major branches separate; physics, biology, chemistry, anthropology, planetary sciences, astronomy, and computer sciences. From these major branches, the subgroups split up.
Physics has Newtonian physics, Subspace Physics, Quantum Physics, Nuclear Physics, Plasma Physics
-Newtonian physics has some specialised branches going into gravitational physics, non-linear (i.e. non-Newtonian) physics, hydrology, thermodynamics, classical mechanics, and electromagnetism.
-Subspace physics has some branches going into STL-physics, FTL-physics, warp physics, slipstream physics, and transwarp physics.
And so forth...

Biology has Exobiology, virology, bacteriology (ya missed that one completely), pandemic&endemic sciences, botanics, zoology, physiology, ecology (yeah, it's part of biology), micro-and cellular biology.
-Exobiology has again two more branches going into xenobiology and astrobiology.
And the other parts also have specialised branches.

And the other major branches have subbranches and specialised branches. You essentially mixed some major branches, subbranches, and a few specialised fields into the whole thing.
Either you make a rough split up into the major branches, or you'll have to make a very huge calculator with every sub-branch available (which would be insane).

BTW, same goes for engineering. You totally missed out on the specialsed technicians. You just have FTL- and engine-techs. What about the computer technicians, or is the calculation done by an array of abaci? Or what about the weapons techs (they're also missing in the Security/Defence/Intel field), the holo techs (remember how often the holodeck went awry in Trek), and so forth... ;)

nyrath
26th Mar 2013, 14:02
Thanks for the updated spreadsheet!

Knight26
28th Mar 2013, 15:45
Thanks for the comments.

As to computer engineers/techs, I had them on the original crew calc, but they were dumped somewhere along the way, I think I lumped them into the comm techs, but I can seperate them back out, understand I do not like how trek has those massive computer cores that handle everything on the ship, I prefer more spread out disseminate computer systems, so that if one fails there are multiple back ups and redundancy. As for weapons techs, having worked on naval ships, the "gunners" double as the weapon's techs, so I kept that in these cases. IF you want to have separate weapons techs go right ahead, but that is one of the reasons why there are so many per weapons emplacement on the calculator. As for other engineering disciplines, what others do you think I am missing, holographics/stealth/cloaking are something that can be added in fairly easily, though most of those will likely be enlisted tech positions, again an issue I have with ST where you rarely see enlisted crew on the ships.

For the sciences, how would people like to see it? I realize there is some redundancy on it, with multiple sub-specialty disciplines on there, but I didn't want a 100 cell mini-calc. I can shorten it to the major disciplines only: physics, biology, chemistry, anthropology, planetary sciences, astronomy, etc... With multiple blank spots the user can fill in, or I can group them together my major discipline, with blanks for other sub-disciplines. How does that sound?
For Example:

Biology:
--------Astro-Bio:
--------Xeno-Bio:
--------Virulogy: (though that might better be placed in the medical dept)
--------Botanics: (Again that might be a double duty for the ship's botanist)

Physics:
--------Classical (Newtonian):
--------Thermodynamics:
--------FTL (Hyperspace/warp/subspace/slipstream/etc...) (whatever your universe uses)

Etc...

How does that look? Remember not every ship will require a full scientific staff on board, so list has to be pruned down for warships, or even general explorers, with allowances for visiting temporary scientific staff. Remember I am coming at this from an engineering perspective, where, I in particular as an aerospace engineer and pilot have to have a grasp of Newtonian physics, statics, dynamics, thermodynamics, biology, meteorology, hydrodynamics, Fluid Dynamics, etc...

I am also considering color coding the various departments on the calculator, to better delineate the different sections and create visual breaks between them.

Saquist
4th Apr 2013, 20:28
So how many people would a TMP size starbase crew?

Knight26
5th Apr 2013, 15:18
hmmm, really not sure, throw me the stats and I can plug them in for you, or try downloading the calculator and figuring it out

Saquist
6th Apr 2013, 02:04
So far I haven't had luck with using it.

But based on the Volumetrics from the Tech Assessment Site for Trek & Wars: http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWvolumetrics.html

The Earth Star Base should crew some of the order of 951,757 People
The Star base 74 Version of Starbase would be of the order of 11,711,150 People

Both Estimates are based on the crew size of and Volume of a Galaxy Class starship.
I was hoping your calculator could give me a break down of that number...but I'm lost as to how to use it. My eyes just go cross eyed.

Knight26
6th Apr 2013, 03:05
ok, will need some basic stats:
longest dimension
number of docked ships w/ crew numbers
number of support craft
number of assumed civilian dependents
number of reactors/teleporters/onboard factories/troops/weapons emplacements etc...

Saquist
6th Apr 2013, 06:37
Height: 3,810 meters

PRIMARY DOCK:
44 CRUISERS Average Crew size 400
30 Light Cruisers Average Crew size 150
96 Rim Shuttle Bays with 15 Shuttles Each (1440)
Each Rim Bay has 5 Peregrine Fighters (480)
Inner Rim Bays 144 with 15 Shuttles Each (2160)
26 Heavy Freight Bays [Average Ship Occupancy] 3 (total ships 78) Average Crew 75
9 Minor Internal Shuttle Bays with 5 Shuttles each (45)

Dorsal Section:
8 Heavy Freight Bays [Average Ship Occupancy] 4 (Total ships 32) Average crew 75
12 Heavy Freight Bays [Average Ship Occupancy] 3 (Total ships 36) Average crew 75
4 Shuttlebays w 15 shuttles each (60)

Lower Trunk:
8 Freight Bays [Average Ship Occupancy 3 (Total ships 24) Average crew 25

Civilian Population:
Transient 150,000
Dependent Civilian Commercial staff 55,000
Embassy and Political Staff 166,000
Photon Launchers: 136
Super Phasers : 32
Standard Phasers 72
Tractor Emplacements 178
Security: 20,000
Super Fusion Reactors 8 (300m Dia.)
Auxiliary reactors: 120

I'm just guessing on Transporters:
Based on a Galaxy Class Starship with 20 per 42 decks at a deck height of 4 meters) at 3810m tall I estimate 453 Transporter rooms and totoal of 952 Decks

Shuttle Repair Factories: 112
Freighter Repair Factories: 24
Antimatter Factories: 48
Metallurgy Factories: 20
Coil Fabrication: 12

Schools & Universities: 526 (Class Rooms) 30 Per Room
Shopping Centers: 12,710
Convention Centers: 352
Observatories: 236
Quantum Laboratories: 442
Medical Labs & Hospitals 90
Solar Forecast Network Crew 233
Space Traffic Control Crew 50,000

It's just off the top of my head.
Hope this helps

Aresius
7th Apr 2013, 13:55
Well, computer engineers and communication engineers ae in Trek very similar as the computer corse and the subspace communication lanes both use subspace fields for an FTL transfer, but that is not the fact in all scifi. And besides, a communication system may be used as a computer, but a computer is not always a communications array. They should be kept separate.
I'd say the holodeck-techs can go to the rec-area techs (I just used the Trek-Holodecks as an example), stealth/cloak should be added as they are something different than a shield tech. I'll go over the list another day as I'm kinda in a hurry.

Science fields:
Well, you have Biology, Physics, Chemistry, Astronomy, Ecology, Planetary Sciences (anthopology is already as usbfield of biology). Those are a must.
I'd say, make a mini-calc with 2 rows and let the people fill it it tot heir likes.
[header-field1]
-[item1]
-[item2]
-[item3]
[header-field2]
-[item1]
-[item2]
-[item3]

Like that:
[Biology]
-[item1]
-[item2]
-[item3]
They can fill in the items as they desire and require. There should be a limit, that's why I only made 3 items. Because I think any vessel will only require a certain specialised staff. Say, you're on a survey vessel, tasked to cartograph a nearby sector. You will need a xeno-biologist, a botanist and a zoologist for sure. You won't need a cellular biologist or a virologist as those are waaaay to specific. In the Astronomy area you'll need Subspace Analysts, Stellar Cartographers, and perhaps even team of Specialists dealing with anomalies.. Other fields, such as physics, planetary sciences, or anthopology are totally unnecessary and too specific..
If you're on a planetary survey ship that is tasked to examine one particular solar system, their main focus in on Planetary sciences (You'll need a meteorologist, a geologist, and a mineralogist), biology and anthopology and less on physics, and astronomy.
However, if you're on an exploration cruiser that simply flies around to broaden the horizon of material knowledge (i.e. increasing the knowledge of the known universe), their focus is to get a bit from everything. Thus they would have a team of, say, 15-25 people of every branch.

So you should be able to specify the fields, but also be able to give a rough number of the less important areas.

Knight26
8th Apr 2013, 16:29
@ Saquist:

Wow, this one was a bit of a doosy, had to add several crew positions and get creative with others, with such massive numbers I am almost considering making the station tab much more automatic, otherwise it is hard to wrap your brain around numbers that large. These are the numbers I came up with, if you like I can e-mail you the whole sheet and let you see where all the numbers are:
Just Crew: 500057
Airwing 20969
Embarked Troops 0
Dock Workers 25465
Total Crew (true) 546491
Officers 29736
Enlisted 133191
Civilian Staff 383348
Civilian Family 55000
Docked Ship Crews 33500
Total Embarked(True) 634991

Even at that I need to massage the numbers a bit. If I e-mail you the file I will explain things better, but I see one place that needs altering, is to move transients from misc to its own cell on the totals section. I am already starting to see changes needed for V6, a lot will go on this station tab, as these huge numbers mean that I need to automate a lot more.

@Aresius
I will take your comments under consideration, I am going to look into, becuase I know there is a way to do, add drop down boxes to the science min-calc, with the major science divisions listed, but leaving 3-4 subsections with drop downs to select a sub-discipline, with a blank or two for sub-disciplines I forgot.

Saquist
8th Apr 2013, 17:29
Yeah, I spent 4 hours on the stats you asked for alone. Fortunately I had a Sketchup model of the station that I used to find out how many cruiser the TMP version can hold and it had all the correct number of bays. I was supposed to split up the Orbital City into 5 main areas...the Observatories on the Core (South City) Administration (North City) Star Fleet Docks, Civilian Docks and Habitat Core.

I'm glad I didn't do the Starbase 74 version...(and yet I will)
Maybe I can get the hang of it and begin working out my Starship specs for cabin spaces.

Knight26
8th Apr 2013, 18:21
Thanks for doing that work, but that shows were doing your homework and thought out initial design really pay off once you are trying to make things believable. Right now your numbers seem pretty spot on. Figure Babylon 5 was suppossed to have around 250k onboard, and was an 8km long O-Neil Island, so there was a lot of empty space, your's will be pretty pack if using typical trek tech, so 635k makes sense even though it is only half the length. But you also had some pretty set requirements too.

I am starting on V6 today, it will have more automation on certain roles, especially on the station tab, and some more elements for those sections. I have already figured out and built the new science min-calc with the pull down menus for the various sub disciplines. I am keeping the header disciplines (anthro, astro, bio, chem, physics, planetary science) as hard fields in case users don't want to break it down more, with up to 4 pull down sub-disciplines, the cells down should copy the pull down cells as well if additional sub-disciplines are needed. I will also make some additions the engineering subsection and will color code the whole thing by section to make it more visually distinct.

Right now I have the following scientific branches and subdisciplines, so you can see why I made them pull downs:

Biology
Astrobiology
Bacteriology
Botanics
Ecology
Micro/Cellular Biology
Pan/Endemic Science
Physiology
Virology
Xenobiology
Zoology

Anthropology
Archeology
Cultural Anthropology
Forensic Anthroplogy
Lingsuistics
Xeno-Anthroplogy

Physics
Electromagnetism
FTL Physics
Gravitational Physics
Hydrology
Mechanics
Nuclear Physics
Plasma Physics
Quantum Physics
Thermodynamics

Chemistry
Analytical Chemistry
Biochemistry
Inorganic Chemistry
Material Science
Nuclear Chemistry
Organic Chemistry
Physical Chemistry

Astronomy
Astrophysics
Compact Objects
Observational Astronomy
Stellar Cartography

Planetary Science
Atmospheric Science
Cartography
Environmental Science
Geology
Hydrology
Meteorology
Oceanography

Am I missing anything?

Saquist
8th Apr 2013, 22:34
The only thing I can think of as far as catagories that I didn't touch ...

Subspace Communications
Intelligence

The Political Ambassadorial Staff at Space Dock is the largest station political Staff in the Federation.
The Federation has 150 Member Worlds and Colonies. The Station also supports Legal staffing for Judges, JAG Offices, Records , Governors, Clerks & Law writers for each of those worlds (roughly 1,000 each). There is also a division of Non-aligned worlds offices and embassies on the station. This would include Klingon and Romulan Empires, Cardassian, Gorn, Breen, Tholian and many others that don't require as much staffing limited t0 50-75 each. But Federation members have as much as 1,000 for the sake of proper representation for the Federation High Council and the mediating between themselves and other nationalities as a neutral site.

Space Traffic Command
Controls the path of every ship entering and leaving the solar system (including shuttle craft and runabouts.
We know there is a much larger station than the TMP station in Sector 001 that has several times the capacity.
------------------
Currently in the USA there are approximately 26,200 air controlers, 20 air route traffic control centers each employing 300 to 700 controllers. This is just for one country.
Space Dock Controls Space Control and any vessel above 100 Km radius from all nine planets and their moons and stations in some capacity especially as they transfer to interplanetary space. So there is Planetary to Orbital Space Traffic. Interplanetary Space Traffic. Interstellar Space Traffic for a cubic Volume of 20 Light Years for Sector 001. I though I was skimping on the numbers at 50,000. Even if Space Dock is not directly monitoring...say like vessels rising from a planet in the Luyten or Lalande system their flight path into Interstellar space is relayed and correlated with space dock to prevent possible collisions with other interstellar craft.

Just as air traffic has primary corridors (Such as the I-10 Corridor which spans the lower part of the country of the USA) so would there be space traffic corridors.

- So...imagine your sector is to relay crafting leaving orbit of the moon (you may handle) only the Mare of Serentity depending on how busy it is and relay potential Interplanetary Traffic to Space Dock. That may be a convoy or multiple ships with complete separate vectors.

-Someone else may be relaying and directing craft from Mars, Venus or Jupiter and their transititions to Orbital Space to Interplanetary Space and then the Transition to Interstellar Space to avoid incoming traffic. Ultimately we're talking millions of space craft.


The 20 light year figure comes from Voyager's and the Argus Arrays impressive scanning range of 15 Lightyears and added 5 for the sake of covering and entire sector.

Look at this air traffic for Earth for just a day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1L4GUA8arY
------------------------
I also reasoned that with each Division on a station such as this size that there are several Admirals.
(Only because this is a Command Post)

Command Admiralty
Medical Admiralty
Scientific Admiralty
Star Fleet Core of Engineers
Intelligence Admiralty
Star Fleet Security Admiralty & Station Civil Authory

That gets broken down by station concerns vs Star Fleet concerns on Command Stations simply because of the population we're dealing with. A Full Admiral may have command of the entire station (not to mention the chiefs of Staff Admiralty to the President would also be at this particular station) while Rear Admirals and Vice Admirals are dealing with Sector/ Fleet concerns and Captains are dealing most with station staffing.

Hence I see at least 2 or 3 Admirals over these departments and dozens of Captains under them.

Aresius
9th Apr 2013, 12:52
Palaenthology and History in the Anthopology area.
Space/Subspace Analysts (for the anomalies and phenomena that exist, like wormholes, subspace siphons, black holes, etc.) in the Astronomy field.
Mineralogy and xeno-environmental surveyors (to look for possible settlement spots in case the planet is marked for colonisation) in the Planetary Science area.
But else I'd say you pretty much got all that is needed.

Abou the techs. You will need weapon techs. It may be true that gunners also maintain their weapondry, but think for instance Stark Trek. There are no gunners, so they need to have technicials who maintain the weapons instead.
And I also suggest to add another line for environmental techs, who look after the lifesupport systems. Any ship, no matter the size, needs a great amount of systems dedicated to the environmental control. Gravity, air, and temperature are the most obvious, but you also need water and water recycling, waste processing and recycling (or where d'you think all the poo goes?), and even if you have replicators/replimats, they, their systems, or the energy conduits will need maintenance. If you don't have, the food processing needs poeple to look after, not everything can be done by the cooks.

Saquist
9th Apr 2013, 14:53
Well he already has Geology. Mineralogy is a subject of the study.
Engineering is every bodies maintenance pool. But there does need to be techs for the waste recycling plants (that no one includes on their MSD but other than that I believe automation takes care alot of these systems.

I looked at the Excel Sheet Yesterday and it's a bit mind boggling. I really hope that Knight could link some of these categories directly with the Volume of the Station to populate the fields. I think the engineering staff just has to be the largest continent on stations of this magnitude.

Edit: and he has intelligence in there too. He's pretty much thought over everything.

Aresius
10th Apr 2013, 11:04
No, there's a major difference. Geology looks at the earth, it's history, composition, features, behaviour of the tectonic plates, and the formations of rock. Mineralogy looks at minerals, ores, gems and crystals, their molecular structure, abundancy or scarcity, growth, etc. My granddad was a geologist, his cousin was a mineralogist. And they used to ahve many topics to agree upon, and equaly much to disagree.

Knight26
10th Apr 2013, 15:41
Unlike some people who joined recently, I do accept and use constructive criticism. I will add Minerology, and am looking at other engineering disciplines as well.

Sorry that you find the spreasheet so confusing Saquist, i am trying to make it as easy to understand as I can, but am working on that for V6. Thank you for the compliment, but I know I have missed some things and that is why I ask for comments and such. What it sounds like you would like is something on the calc, like another mini-calc where you fill in vital stats on the design, and then it auto-populates more things on the calculator, is that right? I have no problem with doing that except that it would enforce a lot more of my own personnal feelings on crew numbers on the user, except that they could override it by filling in the cell on their own at any time. Let me know what you think?

As for the gunner issue, here is where I am coming from on that. I see the gunners as more the modern Fire Controlers on current naval ships. They really are not gunner per se, but they are in charge of the weapon system, manning it, maintianing it, repairing it, etc... Maybe I should change the title from gunners to: Fire Controllers (aka Gunners). What do people think of that idea?

That is also why I don't have dedicated Damage Controllers, because on modern ships, those crew that are not manning the weapons are part of the Damage Control parties, it is a secondary duty that all crewmembers undertake. Look at BSG for example, when the CIC would take damage, there weren't dedicated DC personnel there, the techs in the room did the work, and got their equipment back up and running. There were Damage Control Centers, but even those would be manned by a rotating watch or Office of the Day, etc...

Knight26
10th Apr 2013, 17:20
Ok, I added a poll to the beginning for V6. I have also added the following positions to the WIP V6:
Computer Techs
Stealth/Cloak Sys Tech
Enviro Ctrl Techs
Grappler Beam Techs
Along with the new science disciplines that were suggested, though I called the Sub-Space Scientists Stellar Phenomanists (may change that). All changes will go into the manual at the back.
I also, for now, changed gunners to: Fire Controllers/Gunners
Anything people can think of that I am missing?

I am also going to start working on a prototype self filling (somewhat) crew calc, basically add another mini-calc to the bottom where you answer some design/mission questions and it populates most of the rest. Will see how that works, of course the user can override that at anytime.

Knight26
10th Apr 2013, 19:45
Ok, am playing with the WIP Automatic version. Answering the following questions, plus the mini-calc will populate all but 14 spaces, some of which I will trim down as well.

Ship's Mass (tons)
# STL Engines
# FTL Engines
# Reactors
# Hangers/Flight Decks
# Sensor Arrays
# Cargo Holds
# Shield Generators
# Onboard Factories
#Grappler/Tractor Beams
#Teleporters
# Decks
# Ground Vehicle Bays


FTL Capable? (y/n)
Command Ship? (y/n)
Onboard Farm? (y/n)
Onboard Cloning Facilities? (y/n)
Onboard Botanical Bay? (y/n)
Stealth/Cloaking System? (y/n)

Can you see any that I missed? I was considering asking ship type, but would make things much more complicated.

Saquist
10th Apr 2013, 21:17
Unlike some people who joined recently, I do accept and use constructive criticism. I will add Minerology, and am looking at other engineering disciplines as well.

Sorry that you find the spreasheet so confusing Saquist, i am trying to make it as easy to understand as I can, but am working on that for V6. Thank you for the compliment, but I know I have missed some things and that is why I ask for comments and such. What it sounds like you would like is something on the calc, like another mini-calc where you fill in vital stats on the design, and then it auto-populates more things on the calculator, is that right? I have no problem with doing that except that it would enforce a lot more of my own personnal feelings on crew numbers on the user, except that they could override it by filling in the cell on their own at any time. Let me know what you think?

As for the gunner issue, here is where I am coming from on that. I see the gunners as more the modern Fire Controlers on current naval ships. They really are not gunner per se, but they are in charge of the weapon system, manning it, maintianing it, repairing it, etc... Maybe I should change the title from gunners to: Fire Controllers (aka Gunners). What do people think of that idea?

That is also why I don't have dedicated Damage Controllers, because on modern ships, those crew that are not manning the weapons are part of the Damage Control parties, it is a secondary duty that all crewmembers undertake. Look at BSG for example, when the CIC would take damage, there weren't dedicated DC personnel there, the techs in the room did the work, and got their equipment back up and running. There were Damage Control Centers, but even those would be manned by a rotating watch or Office of the Day, etc...

I'm taking a few days to break down the Formulas..>That tells where the true totals and info inserts are. A little experimentation should have me alright.

Knight26
11th Apr 2013, 14:45
@Saquist I really don't want you to think I meant you, you have been very helpful with this, and the exercise if populating your station really helped me find some holes in the calculator.

I have added the following positions to the WIP V6 Calcualtor, will begin testing it with various ship types to see if it can return similar numbers to the old version.

Diplomatic Attache/Political Officer/Political Officer: basically the person who conducts first contact negotiations and makes sure the CO doesn't commit any political blunders

Diplomatic Staff (auto filled): these are the DA's staff, auto filled with 5 per DA for now.

Transient Passengers: Should your ship have to carry any refugees, etc... you want to have accomodations for them, debating whether or not to have this add to the total as it will skew the numbers.

Saquist
11th Apr 2013, 16:30
When I first read it I thought you might be but it sounded like some history with some others.
Actually I'm not fluent in Excel so this has become a particularly interesting venture. I'm trying to do several things with Excel to learn on my own.

1. Versine Calculation (this for work)
2. Orbital Mechanics (Major and Minor axis of an orbital path.) I want to create a moving model in 3DSMax or Inventor that will simulate planets and start building 3D universe of our stellar neighborhood.

But I try doing major algebra in Excell and I'm not getting the correct results.

Edit: Additional:

Your current crew Calculator seems to be more like a Mission Selector System (sort of) to auto mate it would be nice and speedy but you're essentially letting a computer tell you what you want as your crew.

The only thing I would suggest is a chart of instructions
I don't know why but it wasn't easy seeing where input numbers immediately.

Knight26
11th Apr 2013, 17:17
Well there is a manual in the back tab, but many people tend to miss it. ooh, doing orbital mechanics with Excel, I do not envy you, it is a pain, we did it back in the day before our inst showed us how to do it Matlab. As for doing standard algebra in excel, you really have to make sure that you set things up correctly. Excel has some quirks to its "programming language" that I have come to know well, of course I can't program in anything else worth garbage, but them's the breaks.

Anyway I tried out the automated system, tweaking it here and there until I had it working and spitting out numbers that were most similar, and accounted for any added crew members.

Compare:
Crafty Type/ Original #/ Auto #/ Difference
Carrier / 9938 / 10101 / +163
Destroyer / 2963 / 3137 / +174
Cruiser / 798 / 873 / +75
Science Ship / 338 / 389 / +51
Corvette / 107 / 135 / +28
Cutter / 46 /46 +1

All in all, pretty nice, of course the bigger ships had more crew added as a result, since many numbers are now more crew dependent, but I am very pleasantly surpised that it worked at all for the smallest craft type, mind you that took some tweaking, but the bigger ships came out nicely with those tweaks as well. Before the tweaks the change numbers in the bigger ships were about double what they are now.

So in V6, all someone will have to do is answer some questions about the ship's design, fill out the mini-calcs and the following 12 cells to get their crew numbers, of course they can override by inputting their own numbers at any point.
Diplomatic Attache'
Physical Trainers
Asst Cheif Engineers
Farmers
Botanists
Cloning Techs
Factory Operators
Robot Mx
Rec Deck Operators
Chaplains
Transient Passengers
Civilian Family

Overall I am quite satisified with how it is turning out, I will start back onto the Starbase later, but I need a little break. I figure automating it more will be helpful as most folks on here are designers, not HR folks. I know for me it is an interesting little mental exercise as I am an engineer by training and profession. But it is kind of fun too, in a wierd perverse way. I do need to clean up the User Interface though, any suggestions on that? Right now I am considering putting the questions and mini-calcs along the top with the rest below that. If I figure out a way to do it I might try to put just the stuff the user inputs on one page, and the output on another, but that would require some real programming, if I knew Java I might even make it all web based, that could be cool.

Knight26
11th Apr 2013, 18:29
@Saquist: I tried your starbase again using the new V6 self calc and the number came out to 652,109. I may track down why later, but it is only a 3% increase, not bad.

Question: Space weather, under astronomy or a seperate category?

Saquist
11th Apr 2013, 20:27
That sounds like nice bit of refinement! Can you send that one too?
I'd like to figure out what are the differences in numbers for Starbases that have different staff requirements such as a true ship Yard Starbase. I was imagining the the the Starbase is the nerve center for engineering administration and the smaller station surrounding it would be design centers, tech stations and construction facilities for the different categories. It would be awesome to figure out how big a Fleet yard staff would have to be (say the size of the one in Voyager's Relativity Episode.

That has me wondering why Sol has three Ship Yards. San Fransisco Ship Yards, Luna and Utopia Planitia .

(Space Weather: I thought about this a bit. The only reason I can find to make it a separate category is if it was different from the long range study of space. Along those lines in certain systems like our own there may be a specific satellite net work to monitor CME's and ION storms. In which case this becomes a sort range study using craft and satellites and not just sensors which means a crew and ships or craft of some sort are required to take closer readings.

So I'd say yes...separate.)

Knight26
12th Apr 2013, 19:30
Ok I should have V6 ready to go live next week maybe this weekend. I am attaching a quick screenshot of the progress/new User Interface. Basically fill the mini-calcs, answer the questions and then it will autopopulate all but 5 cells, yes folks 5 cells are all you will need to fill in the main body if this works as planned. I still have to incorporate these changes into Starbase tab, and it's mini-calc, but after that, remaking the example tabs, bug checking, and some clean up work to make it look nice and pretty we should be good to go. I am wondering though if I should move the Totals block into a more prominent place at the top of the calculator though, how does that sound?

Knight26
15th Apr 2013, 17:04
Ok, Version 6 is almost ready to go, I just need to rework the manual sheet and it'll be ready to go.

Knight26
15th Apr 2013, 18:11
Version 6 is now online, I will keep this thread open for any V5 specific comments, but don't plan to see many more updates to it, sorry.

Aresius
16th Apr 2013, 10:09
Space weather? It already sounds so oddly unique that I'd make it a separate field of study... Makes me remember a German SciFi show where the ships often encountered so called Lightstorms. Basically the outer edges of solar eruptions that superspeed interstellar particles... Nice idea.

Knight26
16th Apr 2013, 17:46
Well space weather would involve a lot of factors, sunspot activity, plasma/ion storms, cometary debris avoidance, etc... So that is why I made it its own seperate category.