Gaming/Rendering PC

[Melak]

I know I know...those "I want to buy a new PC..." threads are probably boring, but I need your help, fellow SFM'ers! I've been thinking about getting a new system sometime around Christmas or maybe early 2008. I need a computer that's both a hardcore gamer PC and as fast at rendering as possible. Now I have some questions here and there that I can't resolve alone, I'd be grateful for any advice.

This is what I've been thinking about:

• AMD Phenom 2,8GHz 4200FSB
• Something like 4GB of RAM, maybe more
• GTX or Ultra GF 9800 (will probably be called that)
• 1 small HDD for my OSs (around 40-80GB)
• 1 big HDD for the rest (I like the idea of a 1TB drive)
• DVD R+/-/?
• DVD ROM
• Watercooled CPU and GPU (with radiators and fans, I don't want extra cases). I saw a neat case with preinstalled watercooling for 150€ / 200$
• some Big a** TFT screen in addition to my 19"er, was thinking 24" or something (shouldn't be too expensive, 300-400€ max (so around 400-540$)).

I'd like the System to stay below 3.000€ / ~4,000$, and I can probably assume 2.000€ for the CPU+GPU alone, what changes/other components would you suggest? I will probably stay with AMD / nVidia, don't waste your time trying to convert me The system will probably need to suffice for 3 years.

Another thing: How do I figure out how much power the system will use? CPUs and GPUs usually state their power usage in the descriptions, but what about the other stuff?

Oh yeah, I'm still not sure if I should take an expensive Ultra GPU or a GS - GT one, so I'd like your opinion. (For me it's basically about owning the 'best' item on the market for the moment )

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you can make.

[Darkness]

How much sense does it make to plan a system with hardware that's not even out yet ... Wait until you have the amount of money you want to spend and THEN plan your system with the hardware that's on the market.

All else is crap. You don't know how AMD's or NVidia's next generations will perform. Well, actually you can assume that AMD will still be inferior and NVidia will still be better but hey, who knows.

[Melak]

Well, at the time almost anything is better than the new ATI cards (without driver optimization), so I'd think one could assume that the new Geforce will be better anyways, and since I don't like Intel I'll buy an AMD CPU, their best quadcore to come out this year seems to be the logical choice. I have the money that I want to spend, and I think 2.000-2.200 is about what CPU and GPU will cost, so I don't see why I shouldn't start planning early.

[General_Zod]

Go on new egg. There you'll find MLB's available with dual or quad cpu's & 64 + GB of memory.

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by Melak

Well, at the time almost anything is better than the new ATI cards (without driver optimization), so I'd think one could assume that the new Geforce will be better anyways, and since I don't like Intel I'll buy an AMD CPU, their best quadcore to come out this year seems to be the logical choice. I have the money that I want to spend, and I think 2.000-2.200 is about what CPU and GPU will cost, so I don't see why I shouldn't start planning early.

Well, your choice. But it's simply a fact that you get more for your bucks with Intel. And if you really want to go professional and spend a few bucks, go have a look at multi-socket systems. Preferrably Socket 771 based.

By the way, the K10 (AKA Barcelona AKA 'Amd Quadcore' ) is delaying even more as they seem to have problems getting them to decent clock rates.

[Zabiegly]

Do not buy Hardware "to use for a long time" cause you won't.

Get a relatively cheap pc with components where you get good value for your money and do not spend your cash on overpriced brand-new stuff. That always worked for me. A state of the art PC won't play the games that come out in 3 years anyway. So if you really want to play the latest games you'll need a new one no matter how much power you buy yourself now. So I'd always vote for a cheaper system (not with old components, just not the latest ones) so you can get yourself a new computer every one and a half or two years or so.

[MadKoiFish]

I agree with Darkness as jacked up as the nvidia 680i is itll easily outperform AMD. And I am a ex diehard amd person. I learned my cash is more important than brand loyalty. Not to mention most chipsets for AMD sorta blow. But thats your decision.

Neither of the companies have anything totaly exciting in the near future. I think there was some rumors about true quads IE 4chips in die vs this stiched dual stuff for 3rd q.

Right now some of the lower end Nvidia 8000 series cannot compete with the ati units as single cards. (at the same price points) I would still buy nvidia since it has a better dual card set up.

Water cooling I would avoid for any graphic work, maybe a gaming pc its ok to OC the parts to the limits but on a renderbox or any graphics system I wouldnt not sacrifice stability. I would rather be slower than suffer a system crash before a save. As well do research on this crap. So many kits out there perform worse than a good zalman onion. Keep in mind the mobo cooling, the chipset as well as the voltage regulators often seriously overheat in a water cooled system. (the change from a fan on the cpu to a waterblock kills airflow over these parts.) More often of late I hear water cooled system that are louder than my air cooled ones. Avoid any of those upside down cases if the mobo your looking at has a heat pipe on the nb, sb or the voltage regs. Itll pipe the heat in the wrong direction, away from the larger heat sinks. Best bet is to shop for a case that has 120s in it and good arrangement. IE sideways hdds to clear the oft misplace sata plugs and other capasitors near the bottom right of newer mobos. And remember same # of fans blowing in as out. If not you case will sound like a cheap sex video.


To note ATI/amd has left the top tier GFX card business to nvidia, note the free games with ati cards promo of late. Its not a bad thing in a way it means ati will concentraite on cards most of us can afford (400$ or lower range)
In relation to the poll Most people upgrade the gfx every 2 years no matter what they buy. Only person I know who doesnt is the 70yr old neighbor down the street who plays diablo. And a few technical writters I know who dont game.

As well keep in mind a GFX card will only accelerate your Viewports. Not render times that is tied to the proc.

I have dones as Zabiegly mentions with the exception of Motherboards, ram, and hdds. I used to hold this to PSU as well but it seems those are a changing thing now too every upgrade to gfx or mobo and your buying a new one to support more annoyingly set up plugs. (some of these 8pin deals are a reall annoyance split to support older systems you end up supergluing them to just get them in the socket.)


Oh tft 24" a good NON TN unit will cost upwards of 600$ usd or more. The TN units are rubbish. And I would avoid any of those 30" things since they require dual dvi and lack scalers and many hdw controls. 6bit lcds suck.

[Jedilaw]

I concur with Zabiegly, buying slightly behind the state of the art will always save you money. If you buy at the absolute high end, you will see improvements in only a small number of games, and by the time the next generation of games arrives your system will likely be "average" at best. So you'll have spent probably an extra $1,000 to get the same result that the kid with that year's econo-box has.

[General_Zod]

Originally Posted by Zabiegly

Do not buy Hardware "to use for a long time" cause you won't.

A state of the art PC won't play the games that come out in 3 years anyway. So if you really want to play the latest games you'll need a new one no matter how much power you buy yourself now. So I'd always vote for a cheaper system (not with old components, just not the latest ones) so you can get yourself a new computer every one and a half or two years or so.

Well I built my pc in 2004 and I have only upgraded the memory & video card. It'll play the Unreal engine 3 at 35 fps. At least pc is state of the art to me.

[Darkness]

MadKoi - Watercooling does in no way affect stability. Why should it. If anything, it supports stability by lower temperatures. My system runs like a charm ...

"require dual dvi" What they require is dual link DVI - and pretty much every modern 3d card since the 7800 generation has at least one dual link DVI port. And only the Apple displays lack scalers. And even that doesn't matter much, as it can all be done by the graphic drivers.

Zod - "It'll play the Unreal engine 3 at 35 fps". Interesting. So, you can look into the future? Cool, you must be a rich man. Stocktrading and all ...

And if you base it on today's only available game with U3 engine (Rainbow Six LV) you still can't predict how upcoming U3 based games will work ... because the RSLV uses a relatively early build, many features of the later U3 engine are not even implemented...