Why do so many 3D apps' UI's *suck*?

[Silverblade-T-E]

This has bugged me for the 10 years or so I've messed around with digital art:
Why is it, that many superb programs, have LOUSY interfaces?

1) While it's not the app that makes the art, a pain in the arse app gets in the way of making the art.
2) Just because something costs a fortune, or has been the same way for decades, doesn't mean it should still be CRAP.

Easy way to see this is to compare Bryce and 3DMAX..anyone who sneers at the former isn't thinking clearly, while MAX is a professional tool, it's still about art creation, and many folk preffer Bryce to MAX...mostly because MAX's interface is *the pits* for pleasurable use. Folk who work with MAX use Bryce or similar to make art for pleasure...what's that tell you?

Professional apps have *got* to work reliably, they are work tools, hence huge amount of effort is put into making them stable, fast etc. But, since it takes so much time/money to learn to use them, big resistance, understandably, against improving their UIs.

I really like what Photoshop, Lightwave and Zbrush can help you achieve..but they are an atrocious PIA to use compared to Paint Shop Pro, Vue and Rhino, by comparison (of apps that I own, Photoshop being the least problematical).

Pride may of course may make folk throw snowballs n' brickbats at me Folk hate seeing their fave thing, be it app or football team, knocked. Also, everyone has different tastes, but most folk I've ever talked to, some sotto voice, loathe the UIs of the majority of the "professional" apps.
They may well be used to them, but they don't like them.
Note that I'm not knocking the apps themselves, it's the user interfaces that drive me nuts. Having to hunt through several menus, pull downs etc for osmehting is just...silly. It's art, why can't the UIs be more graphical and common sense-based?

While folk may wince, lol, compare setting up a scene in Vue or Bryce, and and a pro app...be honest, which is easier, more intuitive, and pleasant to use? (and yes I can appreciate the need for specialist contols for synchronizing cameras and so forth, but that should be an easy part of the UI, too)

Dedication to produce a superb piece of art is to be admired, but masochism that puts up with lousy UIs, is not

Anyone got a good answer this problem? (bar, of course, telling me to stick to playing in the sandbox, hehe)

[Guerrilla]

I got one. Make your own UI. I doubt any self respecting artists are running their software with out of the box settings.

[Darkness]

Comparing Vue or Bryce to LW and 3ds max doesn't make sense anyway, so that question is pointless, really.

Vue is supposed to make it as easy as possible to create your landscape stuff - because it's got a whole damn load of premade stuff. Big deal... and Vue's interfaces sucks, sorry to say so.

After all it's probably just personal preference, but I like Photoshop's UI just fine. In the end, if you take some time you'll get around with every interface. So just suck it up.

[spudmonkey]

I agree with Darkness here. Also, Max out-of-the-box is a compromise UI, but you can customize where things are and what is shown so that the application UI can be tailored to your way of working. This isn't only true of Max though - plenty of other professional 3d tools allow a high level of customization.

A more realistic comparison would be like-for-like 3d apps, such as the done-to-death Mudbox vs ZBrush arguments.

[Ozylot]

I gotta agree with this... when I first got into 3D I tried 3ds max, LW and bryce...

it was bryce that got me started.

later on I tried blender and wings

again, it was wings that stuck. setting up a decent interface is everything.

[IRML]

personnaly I think the lightwave UI is fantastic

but with this sort of subject you're going to hear different opinions from every person

[NanoGator]

Originally Posted by IRML

personnaly I think the lightwave UI is fantastic

but with this sort of subject you're going to hear different opinions from every person

Yep, that's inevitable. Part of the problem is juding how 'good' a UI is. In terms of picking it up and figuring it out without aide of a manual or something... yeah, the big ones 'fail'. In terms of working well within their own philsophy, well that's a very different matter. Lots of my complaints about 3d apps come from not being able to do the same thing the same way I could in a different app. Often when I take a step back and reexamine the issue, and it occurs to me that the problem isn't that the UI is bad, but that the app works in a different way. That different way may cause a speed bump in one circumstance, but it may also create a significant advantage in another. My biggest frustration right now is that there isn't a strong enough communication pipleline between these apps to take advantage of each one, so we end up focusing on one and writing tons of code to support a small subset of another.

Blurg. My life'd be a lot easier if there were a de-facto 3d format.

[chrono]

Also some of the issues are from the Code side of the program. With the programmers analytical thinking that it's the users that should conform to the program and not the program to the user.

Remember that it wasn't until 3-5 years ago that "User Friendly UI's" became a big issue and "the next big thing!" in the way of 3D programming. Also some of the current complaints come from users who started 3D with a small software along the lines of Milkshape, Wings, Nendo, Mirai, & etc. and are often confused as to why other users pay 500-5000 for such software.

Just remember that the 'big' packages are for professional who are trained for the program so a badly designed UI is actually profitable for the 3D company!

[Silverblade-T-E]

Chrono,
well, if you want to get all "conspiracy theory" about it, you could suggest it's because folk like Autodesk would WANT you to have to pay more to learn just how to use their apps, eh?

I think lot of the problem is that, originally, coders built the program, thus the menu systems we see...rather than thinking of it as a bridge between the machine under the hood, and artistic tools in the hand, on the other...and the practical limitations of older computers/OS also are part of that.

*agrees with Ozylot*