Most helpful advice I've come accross so far

[Kageo]

Hi there,
I'm still trying to complete a story, but the best advice I've found for me is:

1. The old (begining, middle, end) can be upped to:

Stasis,
Trigger,
Quest,
Surprise,
Critical choice,
Climax,
Reversal,
Resolution.
(from Teach Yourself Writing a Novel, by Nigel Watts.)

2. Write the idea, notes etc, then write the ending, or a breakdown of it. This gives the story a goal to work towards.

3. Use tiddlywiki to keep track of your factoids/notes/info. Finding this small free program has helped me organize my 'world' enough to allow me to devote more brain power to actually writing the story, and less to organization.

Hope this might help someone, somehow.

[Adamastor]

oh for the love of god, dont encourage people to keep using the third act reversal.. it has been done to death in the worst way. "i really didnt expect that my lifelong friend is actually the enemy ive been fighting all this time!".. sigh..

just this morning i watched some guy (probably famous or something) making a very good point: people need to start focusing on making interesting things and avoid the 'safe' way. as you drive through the countryside you'll see a million cows and will ignore every last one, that is untill one of them is purple. that one you will notice

[Kageo]

Originally, for me, the value in the story arc was that it showed me you can break down/build up your story in smaller pieces than the 3 begining, middle, end ones. Nothing is set in stone, you could omit a point on the arc.

Or do it subtly, or well...a reversal doesn't have to be a cliched one.

Interesting Ted talk, but for the life of me I can't remember the last riveting Godin novel or story or script I read, but I watched 30 Days of Night the other day, it was pretty good, and it had a third act reversal...which was cool even though it lead to a lame final fight scene.

[Adamastor]

i have nothing against the third act reversal in it self. the problem is that allot of writers think that the reversal itself will make something interesting rather than having it as a part of a larger arc.
like the movie ghostship.
**big spoiler for those who havent seen the movie (not that your missing much..)**
so the mysterious guy who happens to be the only person that knows of the ship, actually turns out to be the reason for all the deaths on board. gasp...
**end spoiler**

what im saying is that im in favor of a reversal if it is with meaning, well done, and not obvious (or atleast not more obvious for the viewer than for the character).
oceans 11, although its not exactly a reversal, plays against the assumptions of the viewer to surprise him/her in a interesting way when the truth is uncovered.

[Kageo]

oceans 11, although its not exactly a reversal, plays against the assumptions of the viewer to surprise him/her in a interesting way when the truth is uncovered.

Excellent! We've got that one booked for next weekend.


I take your point though. Major reversals can be a bit strained.

[J3SSE]

Originally Posted by Adamastor

i have nothing against the third act reversal in it self. the problem is that allot of writers think that the reversal itself will make something interesting rather than having it as a part of a larger arc.
*snip*
what im saying is that im in favor of a reversal if it is with meaning, well done, and not obvious (or atleast not more obvious for the viewer than for the character).

Yup, that pretty much nails my view on that aswell.

You both make good points though.
In the final analysis, if you can be engaging, exciting or moving and, be original OR travel a well-worn path in an original way, then I'd think you'd be worthy of anyone's attention.

That's my 2cents anyway -with apologies for awakening sleeping threads
(Well - I AM new round these parts )

[Kageo]

apologies for awakening sleeping threads

--

Don't apologize, its a good thing.
I'm new too, and no one is complaining.

[mcarney1173]

Actually, I think the original post of this thread is a great way to go into a story. In my 10,000 attempts at a good story, I used beginning middle and end (maybe a slight twist near the very end) Then, I read the first thread here and now I have a new style of writing. Thanks!

[Kageo]

cool...you're welcome!