Credit Rules for 2D Artist.

[JoeRalat]

Hello everyone this is Joe Ralat. I am a 2D artist. I am having a problem with credit put on my work. I wanted to talk about it here. People know that most of my 2D stuff are Okdagrams (LCARS) over the years I have let people use my work. With the understanding that anything created with it must have my credit on it.. I have problems with a few site. Right now I have a big problem with this one site. (I am not going to give out the name now.) I still hope things can be worked out. My work is being used. Renders/screencaps are made with edit versions of my work on it. I have ask to please have my credit added to the renders/screencaps. It seems that the Admin feels the he should not have to do that. So I have ask him to please take down any work that has used my art and please take out graphics used on your models. The last reply I got from him is "I havent decided yet" So again I hope things work out and he will take down my work. Again I am trying.. I am nice. and have not been rude..So again I hope everything can be worked out..

I have a question maybe people can answer. What is the difference between remaking 2D work and 3D work? A lot of my stuff are in the style seen on the show and have been all new designs, but I have in the past remade a few items.

I feel that people do not give the same respect to 2D work as they do to 3D work. This issue is not just for me. This is for all 2D Artist.

I hope to hear from your mods and Admins on this Issue. I feel that people who do not respect the credit issue and should not be able to get access to other forums. If anything info should be given to the admin on the people. Like Email, ip address to keep tack of these people.

Again I hope to hear from a few people on this Issue. 3D, 2D Artist..

Thanks.

[seanr]

Personally, the admin in question is dead wrong. I'd go to the ISP and request they be yanked if they are unwilling to comply with your requests. While they may indeed be derivative works, that does not automatically eliminate copyright on them. Here's the US Copyright Office's explanation on this subject:

U.S. Copyright Office -Copyright Registration for Derivative Works (Circular 14)

A “derivative work,” that is, a work that is based on (or derived from) one or more already existing works, is copyrightable if it includes what the copyright law calls an “original work of authorship.” Derivative works, also known as “new versions,” include such works as translations, musical arrangements, dramatizations, fictionalizations, art reproductions, and condensations. Any work in which the editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications represent, as a whole, an original work of authorship is a derivative work or new version.

A typical example of a derivative work received for registration in the Copyright Office is one that is primarily a new work but incorporates some previously published material. This previously published material makes the work a derivative work under the copyright law.

To be copyrightable, a derivative work must be different enough from the original to be regarded as a “new work” or must contain a substantial amount of new material. Making minor changes or additions of little substance to a preexisting work will not qualify the work as a new version for copyright purposes. The new material must be original and copyrightable in itself. Titles, short phrases, and format, for example, are not copyrightable.
Examples of Derivative Works

The following examples show some of the many different types of derivative works:

* Television documentary (which contains some archival footage and photographs)
* Motion picture (based on a play)
* Novel in English (a translation of a book originally published in Russian)
* Sound recording (CD in which two of the ten selections were previously published online)
* Sculpture (based on a drawing)
* Drawing (based on a photograph)
* Book of maps (based on public domain maps with some new maps)
* Lithograph (based on a painting)
* Biography of John Doe (which contains journal entries and letters by John Doe)
* Drama about John Doe (based on the letters and journal entries of John Doe)
* SACD (inwhich all the tracks were previously released in a CD and have been remixed
* Words and music (some of the words are from the Bible)
* Words and musical arrangement (arrangement is based on a piece by Bach)
* Musical arrangement (based on a work by Bach)

I've bolded the items which are similar concepts to that of basing a 3D graphic (essentially a computer generated sculpture) on a 2D work (screenshots and floorplans from the shows). These works are perfectly copyrightable and thus subject to the same use restrictions as any other copyrightable material.

[Mark]

hey Sean, nice to meet you.. just so you know Jose has been fully credited for the work he has done in the bridge, when I added the LCARS to the bridge I posted an image of it under "7: Added new MSD based on Jose Ralats lakota MSD", and while the bridge has not been released for download yet, the readme already contains a line stating:

MSD: Created by Jose Ralat of Okudagram.com

But jose has stated that is not enough and he also wants:

• His name added to every screenshot of the bridge
• Game textures to either be watermarker or locked up entirely
• Use an un-edited version of his MSD which does not match the rest of the bridge.

These demands, may make some sense when we are talking about CGI renders and 3D meshes available for renders, but this is a game modification and as such these rules cannot be applied. Additionally it is in breach of the agreement I made with him on entering the downloads section of okudagrams.com where I agreed that:

The credit information must be attach(ed) to the medium that you are using the graphics for.

Since the medium I am using the graphic for is a game modification, and that game modification will come with full credits that everything Jose has worked on, I feel understandable unhappy that I am being accused of graphical theft.

[JoeRalat]

The credit information must be attach(ed) to the medium that you are using the graphics for

Has always been the credit I have ask for. I have asked to have my work taken off the site. But I have not gotten a reply from you on this. Again I did not go to him with my work. I was ask if he can use my work.

[JoeRalat]

* His name added to every screenshot of the bridge
* Game textures to either be watermarker or locked up entirely
* Use an un-edited version of his MSD which does not match the rest of the bridge.

I want my credit on screenshots with my work on it.

* Game textures to either be watermarker or locked up entirely

He pm me saying that he can do that for me. This is from a pm he sent me on my forum.

3) If you wish it I can bake the textures into the model we release, meaning that nobody would be able to edit the textures and gain access to the textures using photoshop etc.

Use an un-edited version of his MSD which does not match the rest of

I told him that he can use the unedit version with the readme credit, but edit versions must have my credit on it. He said no.

[NBTrekie]

These demands, may make some sense when we are talking about CGI renders and 3D meshes available for renders, but this is a game modification and as such these rules cannot be applied.

Sorry, but why do you see a difference between composed pictures with 3d models and composed pictures with 2d graphics? Just because you use them in a mod for a game, that doesn't mean that they should be credited other than a 3d render or an animation with a mesh?

Why is it so hard for some people to credit the hard work done by the artists of 2d graphics, 3d renderings or the models used in them? If you don't want to do that, then create the stuff yourself!

[Mark]

Originally Posted by NBTrekie

Sorry, but why do you see a difference between composed pictures with 3d models and composed pictures with 2d graphics? Just because you use them in a mod for a game, that doesn't mean that they should be credited other than a 3d render or an animation with a mesh?

Why is it so hard for some people to credit the hard work done by the artists of 2d graphics, 3d renderings or the models used in them? If you don't want to do that, then create the stuff yourself!

I dont see any difference in the need to credit, thats why I have credited him for what he has done, infact he has credit for more then he has done.

the difference comes in the way I credit him, I cant force everyone who takes a screenshot of their game to add "by jose ralat of okudagrams.com" to the bottom of it can I.

and Incidently jose isnt the only one doing hard work here, me and my team work tirelessly to bring players of Bridge Commander some worthy mods, and yet I am being made out as some lazy modder who threw together some graphics he found and didnt credit anyone, thats simply not the case.

[Hobbes]

Originally Posted by JoeRalat

Has always been the credit I have ask for. I have asked to have my work taken off the site. But I have not gotten a reply from you on this. Again I did not go to him with my work. I was ask if he can use my work.

OK. Before this thread goes too much further I would like to point out that the purpose of this thread was to provide general advice about copyright issues. If two of you have some issues to sort out, you are very welcome to use the PM system in place.

[JoeRalat]

You are right Hobbes I will keep it to PM.

[Hobbes]

Thanks,

Just as a further note this site has a good history of supporting artists and honouring their posting agreements. There have been many cases where staff, and members, have assisted with issues like this. It never hurts to ask any of us, just remember we can help best when the artist has incontestible proof that they created the works (sometimes this can be tricky in itself, but there are lots of good ways to do this)