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Thread: Filling in some of the 23rd-24th Century (AKA my unskilled PS Trek doodles)

  1. #41
    SFM Obsessed Rekkert's Avatar
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    10 was a lot closer to 7 than 8 was. 8 was extremely alien to 7 users, particularly before the 8.1 update.

    I happened to buy a new laptop right around when 8 came around, and it was so bad, thinks took a lot longer to do with it. That's what started my interest in Linux, long before I knew anything about it other than 'it seems easier to use than this mess'.

    That brings me to an interesting point, regarding UX design: visual aspects and underlying functionality don't necessarily go hand in hand. For example, compare these three screenshots:
    Windows 10
    Kubuntu 18.10
    Ubuntu 18.10

    Now, knowing nothing about computers, the first two would seem to be a lot closely related to each other than the last one; while in reality the two last ones are the exact same OS, but with a different desktop environment on top of it; while Windows itself, looking very similar to Kubuntu on the surface, is completely different down to the most fundamental level as a piece of software.

    The point here is, while the graphics from the Enterprise-A all the way to the Enterprise-C look to be identical, it can be argued that, sometime in the middle, the underlying system was improved substantially or completely changed, and it was down to how well designed the UI was than it was kept the same on the surface level. Besides, Starfleet computers are not a consumer level product, which means that if the UI wasn't in need of a refresh, there was no need to do one artificially in order to sell more copies or stuff like that.
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  2. #42
    SFM Obsessed Starscream's Avatar
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    I don't doubt there were improvements, but we're talking 50+ years with no noticeable changes if we go by purely what was onscreen. Sorry, but I'm very familiar with DOS-Windows-Win95-XP-Vista and so on changes in the space of 30 years, so I am absolutely not buying that, not for that length of time! Improvements would be an ongoing requirement, not only in terms of background performance (bearing in mind the need to keep up with other factions/races), but also with regards adapting for increased multispecies ergonomics as more species join Starfleet, not to mention changes to account for (or take advantage of) new tech additions and those simple "hey, I saw this on a Trill interface, it might be helpful to include!" suggestions passed on to the SF thinktank. In short, just because it's not a "consumer product" doesn't mean there wouldn't be a need for it to change for over half a century.

    At the end of the day though, the only reason the interface was seen to "not change" was because we didn't have any movies or shows take place in the intervening years - unlike TNG-VOY, where we saw noticeable updates to the basic LCARS layouts and even colors in the space of what, 14 years? (before I even get into the TOS Movies!) As a result I'm not going to bend over backwards to rationalise what we saw onscreen as being accurate, when it was driven primarily by lack of time and/or budget (or, simple human error - John Eaves I'm looking at you and your oversized, nacelle-burning Impulse Engines ). It's the same reason I argue that what we got wasn't the actual Ent-C bridge, and uniforms didn't "really" have to be zippered up at the back by a costume assistant, and TNG Borg didn't really look like guys in black leotards with junk taped on, those wobbly TOS bridge set pieces weren't really made of cardboard, the early 3D TNG animations weren't really that primitive, etc etc.

    As such, what I'm doing here is intended to address the UI issue relatively subtly, and be -hopefully, once finished- believably within the iteration of LCARS/Okudagrams.

    ETA: on the subject of Win8, bear in mind that it didn't gain traction partly because it was so drastically different, and as a result Microsoft fixed much of this with 10. I'd also point out that unlike the moneygrubbers in charge of MS, Starfleet wouldn't field a UI update to half the fleet without making damned sure they tested it properly first. Can you imagine having to wait for a system patch before you can activate shields?
    Last edited by Starscream; 19th Dec 2018 at 11:41.
    He's not just a moron. He's the product of the greatest minds of a generation, working together with the express purpose of building the dumbest moron who ever lived.

    And you just put him in charge of the entire nation.

  3. #43
    SFM Obsessed Rekkert's Avatar
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    But again, that's consumer level software, they have to refresh it every couple of years to be flashy and sell new versions. Look at networking or military level software, it changes little over time, with some systems still being virtually identical and still fully supported since the 80s or even 70s. I personally worked with Cisco networking software that, while it was brand new at the time, was functionally and visually exactly as it would've been in the late 80s. When you don't have to sell things to a consumer, you don't need flashy updates or refreshes, you just need it to work as best as it can.

    Not trying to derail what you've got going here, I love the graphics you've come up with, (and, indeed, the only reason we got no refresh of the graphics was because there was no movie/TV show set in the early 24th century), just my two cents as to why the long life of okudagrams do make sense IMO.
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  4. #44
    SFM Obsessed Starscream's Avatar
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    Early development of DOS-Windows was primarily around developing capabilities and ergonomics around advances in hardware -- not flash just for the sake of it (post-98 is somewhat a different matter... ). Consumer software or not, I rationalise the Okuda OS the same way, because with numerous races joining the Federation & Starfleet over time you're going to need to update your GUI to best fit a wider range of species (one reason why modern-day stagnating UIs aren't IMO a viable comparison - we only have one species to contend with!), as well as major advances in technology.

    I'd propose that the Okudagrams really should have updated roughly in line with hardware (ie, from Ent-B to Ent-C), like we saw between TOS/TMP/TUC, and then to a lesser extent TNG/VOY. As you know of course, the Trek interfaces update on the regular - so long as we're "there to witness it."

    As far as MilSpec wares go, my personal experience has been that it depends which branch of the military you've involvement with (and for that matter, whose military). I saw significant changes in platforms being utilised over 2000-2012 for example, and not consistently (with an according level of ballache, too... FFS ) I'd say it's a conversation that opens up a whole other kettle of fish though - akin to the repeated discussions elsewhere regarding old vs new Trek ships, their lifespans, refits, and the numerous real-life examples supporting both views. Frankly I've read enough of that on TBBS to last me a lifetime!

    YMMV still of course, but a progression roughly in line with Tech upheavals is what I'll continue to aim for. Just think of the sh*t I'm going to stir up when I start on a revised TMP/TWOK interface!
    He's not just a moron. He's the product of the greatest minds of a generation, working together with the express purpose of building the dumbest moron who ever lived.

    And you just put him in charge of the entire nation.

  5. #45
    SFM Obsessed Starscream's Avatar
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    Taking time away from the Okudagrams for a moment (bad habit - I keep hopping from one thing to another...) @Rekkert might remember me mentioning what I'm fondly referring to as the "A$$hole 'verse" - a parallel Trek universe that takes a lot of its aesthetic cues from a very different franchise. The below is that universe's Star Fleet insignia, seen roughly around the 2280s.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Not quite as spiffy as your awesome insignia collection Rekkert, but it'll get the job done for now!
    He's not just a moron. He's the product of the greatest minds of a generation, working together with the express purpose of building the dumbest moron who ever lived.

    And you just put him in charge of the entire nation.

  6. #46
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    If you turn that trapezoid upside down, you get something like the Starfleet insignia that was introduced in the 3rd season of DS9 as well as Generations.

  7. #47
    SFM Obsessed Starscream's Avatar
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    Hmm, that wouldn't work for this particular parallel universe... Might give it a go later in the week just to see what it looks like, though!
    Last edited by Starscream; 28th Dec 2018 at 14:00.
    He's not just a moron. He's the product of the greatest minds of a generation, working together with the express purpose of building the dumbest moron who ever lived.

    And you just put him in charge of the entire nation.

  8. #48
    SFM Obsessed Starscream's Avatar
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    Is this what you had in mind, @Rusty0918?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    He's not just a moron. He's the product of the greatest minds of a generation, working together with the express purpose of building the dumbest moron who ever lived.

    And you just put him in charge of the entire nation.

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